Audio channel "City voices

[00:00:00] You are listening to a special edition of the "Foreword", on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of "Innsbruck reads".

[00:00:27] I don't even know how to say hello to such a podcast from the city library, but let's say welcome.

[00:00:33] To the podcast SâForeword.

[00:00:35] SâForeword.

[00:00:36] Do you even know that it's called that?

[00:00:38] Now I know again.

[00:00:40] Good.

[00:00:41] Yes, I'm Boris Schön and sitting opposite me...

[00:00:47] ...Elisabeth Rammer.

[00:00:49] And we've been the two brains, so to speak, behind the 'Innsbruck reads' campaign since 2018.

[00:00:58] With the move to the big house, where it was also expanded,

[00:01:03] the city library was also expanded in terms of staff and the entire event area.

[00:01:08] Can you still remember how this handover actually took place?

[00:01:11] I was brand new to the library at the time.

[00:01:15] Well, there was so much that was new that I can't remember exactly now.

[00:01:19] I know that at the time, it was summer 2018, the book had already been selected.

[00:01:27] And we then took over the publishing negotiations and wrote together with the author.

[00:01:37] And I think you did a lot at the beginning.

[00:01:40] And I went to the cooperation partners and so the work was divided up between us relatively quickly.

[00:01:46] Yes, so I do the event management around this event, so to speak.

[00:01:52] The essence.

[00:01:54] Yes, the essence exactly. Yes, so I do the event program, the accompanying program.

[00:01:57] What do you do?

[00:01:59] I keep in touch with the sponsors, who are very important because they're not just sponsors,

[00:02:04] but cooperation partners.

[00:02:07] Because they are at the center of the distribution of the books.

[00:02:12] And also in the promotion of the whole campaign.

[00:02:16] By the way, we've already said what Innsbruck Reads is all about.

[00:02:20] I mean, for us it's like this, we have these 10,000 books downstairs again right now,

[00:02:26] where our interns are just putting a bookmark in each one

[00:02:30] and are already preparing them for distribution, which will start very, very soon.

[00:02:36] I don't think we've explained it.

[00:02:39] So the thing is, it's basically about choosing a book.

[00:02:43] That is, I would say, not quite a classic, but a clear literary mediation action.

[00:02:51] Or are you contradicting me?

[00:02:53] No, it's a literature promotion, I would say from a marketing point of view, but yes.

[00:02:58] That's a little bit of this idea too, that this one book, what

[00:03:02] I don't want to put any statistical figures on it, the people of Innsbruck read it every year,

[00:03:09] so that this one book possibly comes from this campaign.

[00:03:13] And yes, the book is selected according to various criteria, which are always refined a little.

[00:03:21] This selection is made by a drejury.

[00:03:25] Always has a scientific chair.

[00:03:27] So that simply means a person from the University of Innsbruck, which is also, let's say, well staffed in Innsbruck.

[00:03:35] And yes, in any case, there will be various proposals and various, so the jury members may each propose 2-3 titles.

[00:03:45] These are then read by everyone involved, i.e. all drei jury members and the jury chairperson,

[00:03:53] although I have to admit, we read them too. So you more than me, often?

[00:03:59] Yes, it's my summer reading every year, it's great.

[00:04:02] And I always hope that the jury will choose a book that will be well received by the cooperation partners when it is distributed and also when it is advertised.

[00:04:12] Well, I remember there was once a book called "Superbusen".

[00:04:17] And I saw us distributing it and was honestly glad that it wasn't chosen.

[00:04:25] Well, in any case, after this jury has chosen a book, there is still something very important,

[00:04:33] A second place, because if this first place, i.e. this selected book, is not selected for literature for any reason,

[00:04:41] the campaign, for the literature, for the campaign, because, for example, the publisher doesn't want it or the author doesn't want it or something similar.

[00:04:50] Has that ever happened before, do you know?

[00:04:52] I didn't know until now. So our colleagues from the past would almost have to ask me that,

[00:04:58] But I, since we've been doing this, I don't know anything about it.

[00:05:05] Yes hello, I'm a "Innsbruck reads" veteran, my name is Karin, and I was in charge of "Innsbruck reads" for the first 8 years,

[00:05:13] I remember that time with great pleasure and can't believe it was 20 years ago,

[00:05:20] that the first book was distributed.

[00:05:23] And to answer the question, no, there is no author who would have refused or didn't want to take part in "Innsbruck reads" back then,

[00:05:34] Of course, there were a few more negotiations with publishers because we always wanted to distribute these 10,000 copies

[00:05:43] and of course we had to negotiate a good price.

[00:05:47] And yes, now that I think about it, I remember that there was once an author who wasn't happy with the book cover,

[00:05:55] with the advertising campaign for "Innsbruck reads" back then, and then it took a few days for the dust to settle,

[00:06:03] until the agency redesigned everything.

[00:06:05] And yes, then everything went wonderfully smoothly and the author was of course very happy with her book and the presentation at the time.

[00:06:16] It was sometimes difficult.

[00:06:21] Sometimes it was difficult, sometimes it was a bit complicated.

[00:06:23] It is, publishers are structured very differently, the size and which contact persons there are and similar things.

[00:06:31] But so far it has always worked out.

[00:06:33] Yes, and whatever the case, the authors who are selected are always very happy.

[00:06:39] So you have to say, they're very happy.

[00:06:44] I think it's because Innsbruck is simply a nice place to stay, where they like to go.

[00:06:48] Yes, or that they also earn a bit of money with a print run of 10,000 copies.

[00:06:52] And yes, the advertising is not irrelevant either.

[00:06:56] Well, anyway, this book will then, after the negotiations and so on, will then, and that's actually the part that's already back to you, will then? What happens then?

[00:07:05] After the negotiations, so we agree on a price and then there's the contact with the cooperation partners,

[00:07:17] who finance part of the book purchase. We also still have the whole thing Magistrat, politically so to speak, in the city senate

[00:07:28] the whole thing has to be decided because it's a relatively large amount of money, depending on how thick the book is and where it'sdrupurchased.

[00:07:36] And then we start on the graphics, because we always do our own cover design.

[00:07:44] And at the same time we start contacting the author and coordinating the program.

[00:07:52] And that's where your brain is usually needed first.

[00:07:55] And there's also an innovation, there was one before at "Innsbruck reads

[00:07:59] Not to my knowledge.

[00:08:01] That actually only came about in the second year that we ran the campaigns.

[00:08:05] And that's because this collaboration with the author is always very intensive these days, during the events, the distribution campaigns, the signing sessions and so on.

[00:08:16] That we had the idea back then that we could visit them.

[00:08:21] Exactly, then there's the visitation.

[00:08:23] Although the visitation usually happens very nicely in a café.

[00:08:28] Or if the author lives too far away, like this year, sometimes in virtual space.

[00:08:34] And that's always really nice, because then it's four or five very intense days.

[00:08:40] And "Innsbruck reads" is not a reading that takes place somewhere at the front of the stage and then a few signing sessions, but we carry it off

[00:08:54] the authors in the truest sense of the word

[00:08:56] and authors, yes, to very unusual places.

[00:08:59] I don't know if you can remember

[00:09:01] bizarre places?

[00:09:03] Yes, there have been a few.

[00:09:06] So these special places of action, but I wanted to say beforehand that it's actually a bit pushing the limits for everyone involved.

[00:09:13] That's drei days or sometimes it was even more days from morning to evening with a continuous program.

[00:09:20] Often the authors also want to do a bit of sightseeing, perhaps.

[00:09:25] The classic in Innsbruck, once up the Nord-Kette or something similar.

[00:09:29] By the way, do you know who the first author was that we looked after back then, because we said yes before the takeover?

[00:09:35] I think it was Laura Freudenthaler, but I'm not quite sure now, but she

[00:09:39] was, it was a bit of a special version of the whole thing, because there was exactly this transition phase.

[00:09:45] In other words, the jury was still made up of Natalie Pedevilla, I think.

[00:09:49] They had already chosen the book, there was already a jury,

[00:09:54] and then the campaign came to us with the finished book package, so to speak, and we

[00:09:59] then, as you said, we had to make contact and yes, and that was then "The Queen is Silent".

[00:10:05] Exactly. And I remember we put Laura Freudenthaler on the tram, among other things

[00:10:14] and spontaneously planned a book signing for us, but for the people who were there

[00:10:20] fellow passengers spontaneously. So it was great because people were totally surprised,

[00:10:27] "What's the author there and I can really get her autograph right now?

[00:10:31] and that's what it's usually called there. But it was very demanding, so it was brutally exhausting

[00:10:39] and I remember we didn't have anything to drink, it was warm, we were exhausted.

[00:10:43] Especially thanks to the expansion of the tram lines in Innsbruck, the whole thing took quite a long time

[00:10:48] long, because we had to go from the center, so to speak, to one end and then back to the other

[00:10:53] and back to the middle, Innsbruck Library is roughly in the middle, so from that point of view. We were two hours

[00:10:59] almost on the way and yes, it was intense, but it was a really great feeling, it was just unfortunately

[00:11:06] the year drawas then an impossible year for Innsbruck Reads, which we then also

[00:11:14] everyone knows what 22 was, so I remember it was really weird then, because we did

[00:11:20] had planned the action in April, everything was already planned. It was the books,

[00:11:25] the 10,000 books were on their way from a German publisher to Austria and the

[00:11:32] then got stuck somewhere on the border and then in the biggest first lockdown

[00:11:38] had to somehow pilot these books here without being present in the library,

[00:11:44] was also exciting.

[00:11:46] Right, and the following year, when the action with the books from the previous year, so to speak,

[00:11:53] which, fortunately, that's the huge advantage of literature, were of course still current. There was a special

[00:12:03] place, I think that was quite cool, we were in the Innsbruck Alpine Zoo back then. Can you still remember that?

[00:12:08] Yes.

[00:12:09] And that's where we, we had a

[00:12:10] preliminary talk, because at that time there were still all these corona safety regulations with precise

[00:12:14] measurements of how many centimetres apart chairs had to be and how every second chair

[00:12:21] may only be occupied and so on and we then calculated it and then

[00:12:25] had a conversation with André Stadler from Alpen Zoo, the director, and it was pretty funny.

[00:12:31] I also have a recording from back then where he was trying to get into the room because,

[00:12:36] because we had also planned his dance performance, he was wearing a mask on his face

[00:12:41] did a few dance moves to show that the room was suitable. This Hans Psenner Hall

[00:12:46] is a room, becomes great because there's a huge aquarium in the background and because the

[00:12:51] book had an aquarium scene.

[00:12:52] In a zoo, by the way, it was by Milena Flasar,

[00:12:57] Yes.

[00:12:57] "Mr. Kato plays family". That was a great place, so that was a favorite place of mine

[00:13:05] and it was a great place. Because I think we did that for the first time, a bit at Innsbruck Reads,

[00:13:11] that we were looking for such special places, because the opening was earlier on ORF,

[00:13:16] which we have now, of course, because we have the large event space,

[00:13:20] into the library, in the traditional way. And the way you do it, at least in my

[00:13:26] youth, "New German", we also tried to pimp this opening evening a bit, yes.

[00:13:30] Yes, you succeeded, and you are mainly responsible for that,

[00:13:38] because I trust your music selection completely. So, who doesn't like it

[00:13:43] Boris is to blame. Whoever likes it, I am of course involved in the organization.

[00:13:49] In any case, it's going to be special again this year on the occasion of the anniversary,

[00:13:58] So should we spoil it already?

[00:13:00] Yes.

[00:13:01] Yes, so this time there's not only extremely great music,

[00:14:03] around the talks and the reading on the opening evening, May 6th, a Monday.

[00:14:09] But then afterwards there's even a, I'll call it a little concert.

[00:14:14] And that's by? Yes, by "Mad About Lemon".

[00:14:19] Cool, yes, I'm sure it'll be great fun.

[00:14:22] By the way, this is the 20th anniversary of "Innsbruck reads". It was actually founded 21 years ago,

[00:14:29] but as we explained earlier, it was postponed once, so to speak.

[00:14:33] And that's why it's the 20th time this year. There's a pretty cool program. We've already said that,

[00:14:40] who the author is this year? It's yes...

[00:14:41] Yes, we haven't said yet, it's Caroline Wahl, in the surname.

[00:14:47] And the book is "22 Bahnen". We already had an exciting situation there,

[00:14:56] because we have one of our main sponsors, IKB, and this year we will also be organizing an event

[00:15:00] in a municipal indoor swimming pool...

[00:15:02] Hello, hello, two.

[00:15:04] Two events, that's right.

[00:15:05] One reading and one swim training.

[00:15:07] But I'm always so literary focused, so I only had the literary in mind.

[00:15:10] In any case, we know, we went to the IKB and had a preliminary talk

[00:15:16] and put the book down and then suddenly the question was "22 lanes"?

[00:15:22] "We don't have a swimming pool with 22 lanes

[00:15:24] Oh, that was it.

[00:15:25] And then we came across drathat we call the lanes lengths.

[00:15:28] And in Germany, the railroads are called Bahnen.

[00:15:31] So now it means I swim in one lane, 22 lanes.

[00:15:35] Whereas here you swim 22 lengths in one lane.

[00:15:38] That's why we do a reading while the audience "swims 22 lengths".

[00:15:43] Do we do that?

[00:15:45] No, I don't think so.

[00:15:47] Instead, we do a reading once and then there's the opportunity,

[00:15:51] to get training tips from one of our colleagues in the library,

[00:15:55] who is also a state-certified swimming instructor.

[00:15:57] And then you can swim the 22 lanes.

[00:16:00] We also have a lot of distribution campaigns planned again this year,

[00:16:06] because that's another new thing we've done.

[00:16:09] We don't just have distribution points where people can come and pick up the book,

[00:16:14] but we also surprise them in unusual places and give them the book,

[00:16:20] which is always really nice, the reaction of people who receive something as a gift

[00:16:24] and don't have to do anything for it, they just take it.

[00:16:29] And here we are in front of the Sillpark shopping center, over the IKB swimming pools,

[00:16:36] and the streetcar, where we emerge in front, different places in Innsbruck.

[00:16:41] And I think it's always so positive from the people who report back to us.

[00:16:47] Yes, that was also one of our ideas. That's right.

[00:16:49] And that's also good, because you have to, you should encounter literature everywhere.

[00:16:53] There's an old saying: "Literature is always on duty" and

[00:16:59] so we try to put that into practice.

[00:17:01] Yes, and we did something else.

[00:17:03] We've done that for the drith time now, to make it low-threshold.

[00:17:10] Namely, there is always an "Innsbruck reads" audio book.

[00:17:13] Because this time we had the problem at the beginning,

[00:17:16] that the book, the audiobook, already existed or already exists.

[00:17:20] And what is the solution now?

[00:17:22] The âInnsbruck readsâ audio book this year,

[00:17:24] is available in the city library's eLibrary.

[00:17:28] It's free for members.

[00:17:31] For those who are not yet members, the following:

[00:17:34] So up to the age of 17 you can read for free in the public library anyway,

[00:17:38] with a culture pass too, by the way.

[00:17:40] And for everyone else, we will be giving away annual memberships for new registrations.

[00:17:48] Please simply enter the password 'Innsbruck reads audiobooks' in the city library

[00:17:52] when you register and then

[00:17:55] there is a free membership.

[00:17:58] Yes, in that sense.

[00:18:00] I have to go back now and see if it fits downstairs with the books,

[00:18:04] because they'll be sent out next Monday,

[00:18:08] so that you can get them everywhere from Tuesday, April 30th and distribute them.

[00:18:16] Yes, and in the next episode I'll be talking to Birgit Neu and Thomas Pühringer.

[00:18:21] Both were involved at the very beginning of the Innsbruck Reads campaign

[00:18:24] and can tell us exciting details about the first edition and the years that followed.

[00:18:31] And until then, happy reading.

[00:18:34] [Music]

[00:18:58] The foreword is a production of the Innsbruck City Library and part of Stadtstimmen,

[00:19:04] the audio channel of the city of Innsbruck.

[00:00:00] Caution, listening to this podcast may lead to more visits to the library.

[00:00:06] Yes hello and welcome to the preface, the podcast of the Innsbruck City Library.

[00:00:26] My name is Christina.

[00:00:28] And I am Pia.

[00:00:30] And today we're going to talk about why we don't actually like Booktok.

[00:00:36] But before we get into this perhaps controversial topic,

[00:00:40] today we have the great honor of announcing the book for Innsbruck reads.

[00:00:47] Since 16.04. the people of Innsbruck know what we are reading.

[00:00:52] And Pia, what are we reading this year at Innsbruck reads?

[00:00:55] What can the people of Innsbruck look forward to?

[00:00:58] 22 tracks is the name of the book.

[00:01:00] By Caroline Wahl, who, by the way, takes over the podcast when Innsbruck reads,

[00:01:06] will also be a guest in one of the episodes starting next week.

[00:01:10] Will conduct an interview with Boris.

[00:01:12] So we're really looking forward to that dra.

[00:01:14] It's the 20th anniversary of the campaign from 30.04. to 10.05.

[00:01:20] There will be lots of events, signing sessions and Caroline Wahl will be there.

[00:01:25] We are really looking forward to it. There will be 10,000 books distributed.

[00:01:29] And as I said, from next week we'll be out of the picture for the time being

[00:01:34] and we can also look forward to what Lisi, Boris and many a guest and many a guest bring with them.

[00:01:41] 10,000 free cups and free events from April 30 to May 10.

[00:01:48] Innsbruck reads for the 20th time.

[00:01:51] Hot Take.

[00:01:56] Booktok is not overrated, but it has a lot of disadvantages, which is why I don't like it so much mag.

[00:02:03] I see. Have you ever been on Tiktok?

[00:02:08] So maybe we should explain what Booktok is exactly.

[00:02:11] Exactly.

[00:02:12] So there is Tiktok, which is a social media platform.

[00:02:15] And Booktok is basically an area on this platform where people talk about books.

[00:02:21] Born from the hashtag Booktok, made up of whatever is trending right now and Tok.

[00:02:29] And that's gotten so big, I would say, since the pandemic.

[00:02:34] Since 2020, since people, this is coming from the US again a little bit,

[00:02:39] that's when it suddenly became very relevant for the various book markets

[00:02:44] and not only in America, not only in Great Britain, but it also spilled over to us

[00:02:51] and also has an influence here.

[00:02:53] You can also see it on the cover of the German books.

[00:02:58] It's often on there now, the Tiktok sensation, sometimes as a sticker, but sometimes also directly on the annotation at the top,

[00:03:04] on the table of contents.

[00:03:06] It's really specifically written there that it became known on Tiktok.

[00:03:10] I just cataloged one right now. Cataloging for anyone who doesn't happen to be a librarian,

[00:03:16] is easy when we've ordered books and they have to get into our system somehow,

[00:03:20] so that it's easy to find when you use the search function in our online catalog, for example.

[00:03:26] So that you can see it, the book has to be incorporated.

[00:03:30] It's also just up there dra.

[00:03:33] We actually order books now.

[00:03:36] At first, before it arrived, I definitely noticed,

[00:03:40] that it was a topic in the book trade relatively quickly, I mean, sales are clear.

[00:03:46] It's now customary to have at least one table where you can either sell the next Tiktok sensation

[00:03:53] or Booktok sensation or just all the different Booktok books, right?

[00:04:00] Have you noticed that too?

[00:04:02] Yes, it's become more and more now.

[00:04:05] And now it's also spilled over to us.

[00:04:08] We also have books that go in exactly this direction.

[00:04:11] Colleen Hoover, for example, is the prime example of this, she's an author,

[00:04:16] who is very well received in the youth book sector, but also in the adult sector,

[00:04:20] who often writes romance novels and they are very, very well received on Tiktok and on Booktok.

[00:04:28] I've tried it out now.

[00:04:30] I downloaded it once because I thought to myself, I didn't want to say I think it's such nonsense,

[00:04:35] when I basically have no idea about it, do I?

[00:04:38] Now I'm really curious, a brief history.

[00:04:40] We've been talking about this Booktok, this so-called, so we've been talking about it for some time,

[00:04:51] that we want to make an episode about it.

[00:04:53] We both find it very, very interesting.

[00:04:55] But we're both very social media shy and neither of us has ever been on Tiktok.

[00:05:00] I, for example, refuse to download this app for various reasons.

[00:05:04] For me it has to do with data protection, for me it has to do with the fact that the algorithm is too good.

[00:05:08] And we'll talk about all these topics in a moment.

[00:05:12] And now I'm hearing for the first time that you've laughed it off.

[00:05:17] When did you download it?

[00:05:18] On Monday.

[00:05:19] On Monday.

[00:05:20] So about a week now.

[00:05:23] And I just wanted to do it especially for this episode because I thought I didn't want to rant about anything,

[00:05:27] where I have no idea about it or where I don't know what it actually looks like.

[00:05:31] And I'm going to delete it again now.

[00:05:35] It's my world, I have to say.

[00:05:38] I downloaded it and it was extremely exciting,

[00:05:41] because the first thing I noticed was that I was immediately categorized as a user.

[00:05:50] Because the first video I got, where I searched for Booktok,

[00:05:54] was book recommendations for women in their 20s.

[00:05:57] And that was like, okay, you kind of know exactly.

[00:06:00] So I'm 30, but I'm still immediately categorized

[00:06:06] and then I get recommendations accordingly.

[00:06:09] And then the next thing was Booktok books that lived up to the hype.

[00:06:13] They were all romance novels.

[00:06:15] And it was also exciting that they were immediately,

[00:06:18] Of course, it could also be that people who are looking for Booktok are generally female,

[00:06:24] Of course it is also true.

[00:06:25] I think there are, so that's, I can't cite any studies right now.

[00:06:30] I deal with the topic more on a meta-level,

[00:06:34] by watching videos on YouTube about analyses by Booktok books.

[00:06:40] From actual Booktok users and mostly female users.

[00:06:44] And I do believe that it's also ...

[00:06:47] That it's very female dominated.

[00:06:48] Yes, we also notice that in fiction, it's definitely like that,

[00:06:51] that more women read fiction novels.

[00:06:55] And I would then assume that this will definitely translate.

[00:06:58] Even all the influencers, 80 percent of them are women.

[00:07:03] Women.

[00:07:04] Well, I noticed that too.

[00:07:07] But don't you think that one week is not enough?

[00:07:09] Yes, of course.

[00:07:11] Because this algorithm is supposed to be so devilishly good and the more you interact

[00:07:15] and the more you do, the better it knows you.

[00:07:19] And I don't think a week is long enough.

[00:07:21] Yes, that's certainly the case, but I just wanted to test it out,

[00:07:23] and I found it fascinating.

[00:07:25] That's the first thing I get, is books for women in their 20s.

[00:07:29] And they weren't bad recommendations either.

[00:07:31] You're a target group.

[00:07:33] Yes, I am a target group.

[00:07:35] There are still books that we have in the library.

[00:07:37] So these were things like conversations with friends, for example

[00:07:39] by Sally Rooney, we have, in German and English, Cleopatra and Frankenstein

[00:07:44] by Coco Mellors, we also have in the library.

[00:07:47] Or advice books like 101 essays that will change your life

[00:07:51] by Brianna Wiest.

[00:07:52] We have a few from her.

[00:07:54] But I'm not that impressed nowdrubecause I have one,

[00:07:57] These are just the five books that you see everywhere.

[00:08:00] Of course.

[00:08:02] But they weren't...

[00:08:04] Well, those were the first suggestions I got.

[00:08:08] And I was like, okay, I would have immediately imagined Colleen Hoover.

[00:08:11] And that's just the typical, okay, romance novel thing.

[00:08:14] That was the second thing I got.

[00:08:16] That was the second, the second video, that was the "Elly Haysworth".

[00:08:20] Yes, I think so, I think so,

[00:08:23] that this algorithm can work well for you,

[00:08:26] if you use it for yourself.

[00:08:31] That's actually like everything that concerns social media or cell phones and so on.

[00:08:37] If you use it for your own purposes and if you filter the algorithm correctly

[00:08:42] and then don't click on too many videos and really just use that,

[00:08:45] if you need something, then that can certainly be useful to you.

[00:08:48] So the problem I have with Booktok is this Rabbit Hole,

[00:08:53] which is simply getting more and more blatant due to this excellent algorithm

[00:08:58] and you just get pulled into more and more bubbles.

[00:09:04] And I read once recently, for example,

[00:09:09] that the app accesses your camera.

[00:09:13] Did it ask you for permission?

[00:09:16] Camera didn't, but my contacts wanted to, they said like no.

[00:09:20] Always a good idea to say no, privacy is important.

[00:09:24] We download apps on our cell phone and often before convenience.

[00:09:29] We don't even look at what we're actually downloading dra, but I'm surprised,

[00:09:33] because I've read that TikTok scans as an app,

[00:09:39] the facial expressions, where the eye lengths are and exactly whether you like it.

[00:09:44] I can't get that back here, of course, I'll go into the show notes,

[00:09:47] if I find it again, I'll definitely link it,

[00:09:50] if I find something about it.

[00:09:51] I remember being very surprised and shocked.

[00:09:55] And they generally use the dwell time on Instagram too, I think.

[00:09:58] And how long you stay on top of a post or watch a video.

[00:10:02] But TikTok just has it, so of all the social media platforms,

[00:10:07] TikTok does it the best.

[00:10:10] And of course, it's like, quickly, quickly, quickly post a video to the...

[00:10:14] For me, it's just such a fast medium, that's why it's not for me.

[00:10:18] I'm just Generation YouTube, so we'd rather watch an analysis

[00:10:21] or a longer video about it.

[00:10:23] But these very short ones, that went so quickly,

[00:10:26] often such quick cutes, I somehow don't like that mag .

[00:10:29] And then they totally, I feel so old,

[00:10:32] because I had to take a break all the time, drÃto look at the books,

[00:10:35] because I didn't realize which book was being presented again.

[00:10:39] I mean, maybe you can also say that,

[00:10:41] that also has something to do with an ageing process,

[00:10:47] that at some point you can't keep up as quickly.

[00:10:50] And you have a thousand other things that interest you more,

[00:10:53] than watching the video now.

[00:10:55] Yes.

[00:10:57] Yeah, but it was fun to watch it,

[00:11:01] but it's just this female, so it's mainly women on the platform itself,

[00:11:07] that's very noticeable, because I found a man.

[00:11:10] But that was only when I was specifically looking for fantasy books,

[00:11:14] and he came up pretty far down the list,

[00:11:16] so it took a while.

[00:11:18] And then I also started looking for books where I thought to myself,

[00:11:21] okay, I don't think there's necessarily a huge community for that on Booktok.

[00:11:26] I was looking for Donna Leon, for example, and then I totally,

[00:11:29] So there were videos, but very few.

[00:11:32] And there was one, I don't even know if she spoke English,

[00:11:36] it was definitely an English video,

[00:11:38] because she had English captions.

[00:11:40] And she was like, that was extremely entertaining for me,

[00:11:44] because she somehow discovered Donna Leon for herself.

[00:11:47] And then Donna Leon is kind of a standard, crime novelist for me.

[00:11:52] And then she just wrote in this caption,

[00:11:55] the feeling when you read and discover a great book,

[00:11:58] that it's a series with over 30 books, so I thought.

[00:12:01] Who doesn't know Donna Leon?

[00:12:03] So it was kind of amusing.

[00:12:05] Probably most Americans, because Donna Leon is American.

[00:12:09] The name sounds so Italian, it's also published by Diogenes,

[00:12:13] It also has a touch of that.

[00:12:15] So it is, it's somehow marketed that way.

[00:12:20] And in America it doesn't work at all, and by the way, it's going away,

[00:12:22] like hot cakes.

[00:12:24] In America, I don't think I know anyone, at least not like me.

[00:12:27] We like that.

[00:12:29] But it was funny.

[00:12:31] And then I also looked for German-language authors.

[00:12:36] And there were, well, there were a few things,

[00:12:40] a post now and then, but very few.

[00:12:43] 22 Tracks, for example, is very popular on Booktok.

[00:12:48] I thought that was very cool with the ravages of time.

[00:12:51] And that the Innsbruck reads book

[00:12:53] is also so far ahead. So that German women writers are also seen there, I thought

[00:12:58] I thought that was kind of good. I think it's difficult, because then I also have, for example

[00:13:03] I looked for Monika Helfer, for example, or really those who do well with us, or Rebecca

[00:13:09] Gablé and the first Rebecca who suggested it to me was Rebecca Yarros, who was from

[00:13:14] Fourth Wing, so Flammengeküsst. They were also all rather older authors, or Monika Helfer is also

[00:13:23] rather and Rebecca Gablé. I also looked for Stefanie Sargnagel. And how was

[00:13:28] that? There were only videos about her, but very few. For example, how she does a reading

[00:13:32] does or something. But overall, you didn't feel so comfortable there? It wasn't really my

[00:13:38] thing. I'm generally more into the English-speaking world, including the internet. But it's still kind of

[00:13:47] interesting that there is such a bias towards English-language books. It has

[00:13:51] already, for example, where there have been a few more books by Cornelia Funke, although of course they are

[00:13:55] also goes in the direction of books for young people. In other words, the target group is basically also a

[00:13:59] a little bit. And Thomas Brezina, I've also found a few things there. He will also know that he has to go there.

[00:14:05] He's also on there himself. So he has his own account. So I think that surprises me

[00:14:10] not at all. You know, of course, it's a phenomenon that's become big in America. You have

[00:14:15] most booktubers are simply American or at the very least from the UK or

[00:14:20] at least they go into the English-speaking world and always discuss the same books.

[00:14:24] And the, I mean, German and Austrian and Swiss literary market, that's against it

[00:14:29] tiny, of course, and that's on a platform like this. So absolutely understandable, of course. But

[00:14:34] it's interesting that there is such an extreme bias. Yes. And in itself

[00:14:41] I think the content that's up now is not bad in itself. So it's

[00:14:46] also fan content where people can talk about it. And it's also great that a

[00:14:49] younger generation is now getting more into reading and accepting it and creating fan art themselves. So

[00:14:56] some really nice things are up there. And Booktok has once again contributed significantly to that

[00:15:00] contributed to the fact that Gen Z reads a lot, so the book was said to be dead. So, there we have

[00:15:06] already talked about it last week about thedrudeleted book and so on. But the fact that the, the

[00:15:12] book is absolutely in, is a trend. Yes. But you also have the feeling that it's a certain

[00:15:17] aesthetic that's being sold. Especially in certain videos, you get the feeling, okay,

[00:15:22] it's so relaxing now, afterwards you have such nice music in the background, books with very,

[00:15:27] very nice covers, preferably jewelry editions. And that's where I get to the thing that

[00:15:33] really bothers me about this Booktok trend, because it brings with it an aestheticization of the book,

[00:15:40] which is not necessarily a bad thing or a good thing per se. That's value-neutral for a start.

[00:15:45] But social media is simply always a medium of self-expression. And that means that

[00:15:52] then suddenly reading is elevated to such a curated art form. That means, what do I read?

[00:15:57] Not just an⦠It's a hobby that I can market, to be honest.

[00:15:59] Yeah, what? Exactly, you're marketing yourself and you're not going to make the Asterix and Obelix comic beautiful

[00:16:04] next to the coffee, but a Camus. And that means, which books do I show?

[00:16:11] what do I read or what do I want someone to think I read. That goes so far,

[00:16:17] that there are beautiful decorative editions of books, that there are book lists and then celebrities

[00:16:24] give these beautiful jewelry editions to celebrities and then let them take pictures with them.

[00:16:30] Yes, it's not bad in itself, but you have to be aware of that... So, the breakage is caused by these

[00:16:38] mechanisms are turning it more and more into a consumer good and a product.

[00:16:42] You move away more and more from the text, from the actual thing, right? And it's all about how it looks

[00:16:48] what does it look like? And, as I say, you always like jewelry editions. But there's just..

[00:16:51] Yes, but it's about the text and the art that's in the text and also the books,

[00:16:57] that are partly read there. It's up to you who wants to read what. But what it does in the masses,

[00:17:06] That results in such a cycle. Now X, Y is doing well. That's why

[00:17:14] the next book next year, which should then become the bestseller,

[00:17:19] is then the same book or the same topic with a similar author.

[00:17:22] A bit different, different. And drops, for example, which is totally fine. I also have such

[00:17:28] videos, like books where the villain gets the girl or something. And just,

[00:17:32] if something like that works, ok, after that there will be 10 books in that direction or

[00:17:36] not just 10, exactly. And more than in this direction. It's publishing,

[00:17:39] because they also want something, that's for sure. That means they know it works, so we want

[00:17:44] more of it. And then it just becomes more and more similar and then people consume more and more

[00:17:48] the same thing and actually you always read the same 10 books in a cycle like this or

[00:17:52] more and more specific. And this chopization of literature, we've already noticed that in

[00:17:59] the library. But then at some point I also ask myself the question, for example, there are also

[00:18:06] a little bit, we've already talked about it, out of fanfiction, I think. I think,

[00:18:09] that it's just such an internet thing, because you need very specific

[00:18:13] keywords to find what you're looking for. I just find it problematic when you then

[00:18:19] really start, because the book, all of that just contributes to the book just being a

[00:18:26] pure consumer product. I want the product "Enemies to Lovers" with that and the setting,

[00:18:31] in this and that cover. And then I just read them because the publishers have these 10 books

[00:18:41] in exactly this aesthetic. And then I'm right in my bubble on Booktook, where I'm with

[00:18:45] people who don't read anything else and I don't hear about other literature. What

[00:18:52] you do, as I said, everyone is allowed to read what they want. That goes without saying. But at the same time

[00:18:58] it's kind of a shame, because somehow the colorfulness of literature gets lost a little bit

[00:19:03] is lost. Regardless of the context, it's always worth stepping out of your own comfort bubble.

[00:19:10] It doesn't have to be every book. But studying forces you to read books, for example

[00:19:16] where you think to yourself, oh no, it's going to take weeks. And it has added value every time. And not every

[00:19:22] book is a, oh no, book quickly. Often it's like, wow, that's exactly mine.

[00:19:27] And even with the oh no books, you think to yourself, okay, but I can understand why that's the case

[00:19:32] has achieved such a status. Which is of course also nice for us in the library, we mark

[00:19:39] them somehow separately or something. In other words, it's absolutely justified that the

[00:19:44] are with us, that we are happy for them and so about every book that is read. And that on an

[00:19:49] individual level, it's a completely different story anyway than in this

[00:19:54] mass phenomenon that more people criticize here. It's nice here, they just sit on the shelf. And

[00:20:00] it can happen that if you're already there anyway, you just take what you're laughing at,

[00:20:05] what you've seen on Booktook, because it's attention economy and what I very much

[00:20:09] I want to have. But then there's one next to it that's maybe the whole other genre and

[00:20:14] then you say, oh, then I'll take that too. And then you do that, it doesn't cost anything. And

[00:20:19] that's the next booktook is expensive. If you really want to get all these book halls with these

[00:20:27] stacks of books that some influencers buy, that's then, promoted

[00:20:31] then again this consumption and is somehow not, so it's definitely not

[00:20:35] the trainers. Who can buy ten books a month on their own? That's 200 euros,

[00:20:40] if not more. So that's also insane money. Yes, but that's the reason for me,

[00:20:47] why I criticize Booktook very passionately, simply because these things,

[00:20:55] it's like, this social media has evolved so much from creativity and sharing to

[00:21:03] consumption and Booktook is a prime example for me of what could be so creative,

[00:21:09] that it certainly still is in parts. Of course, there are really nice videos, including this one

[00:21:16] fan community, who come together and exchange ideas. That also fits well,

[00:21:23] but for me it was somehow just too empty and somehow so many posts,

[00:21:27] then just copy and paste. These titles, these, these books, they deserve the hype,

[00:21:33] you just have that a hundred times and they're just different books drinnen, but roughly

[00:21:39] exactly the same and then I think to myself again, okay, I don't really need it now.

[00:21:44] Yes, and of course you have to say that it's not necessarily aimed at a younger target audience,

[00:21:53] but that has simply developed from usage, from usage behavior. These are

[00:21:58] TikTok in general is more the younger generation, which they no longer use on Facebook, for example

[00:22:06] or can be found on YouTube. So Facebook anyway. I think YouTube is about us and then

[00:22:12] I mean, a lot of people our age certainly use TikTok as well, but there are

[00:22:21] good reasons to use it, then I'm sure, but there are also an insane amount of good reasons,

[00:22:25] maybe not always using it too much in the end. Yes, would you still use TikTok

[00:22:34] but install it? I'm deleting it now this week, I've just been listening to it now that

[00:22:38] we're still doing that and now I'm deleting it again. Yeah, we'll go too

[00:22:43] constantly getting these notifications on my mind, just because I've just watched a video

[00:22:48] it's not like that, so I haven't subscribed to anyone and yet I still get

[00:22:51] updates and that gets on my nerves. But that's generally a social

[00:22:55] media thing and I just don't like that mag , that's why. And I haven't found anything now where I

[00:22:59] think to myself, ah, I wouldn't have gotten this recommendation anywhere else. Yes, well, we're also sitting

[00:23:04] at the source, maybe that's something else, but then I'd rather be on YouTube,

[00:23:10] I have to say. Whether I myself have now turned my back on drÃ, a little bit as far as possible,

[00:23:15] simply because the advertising has gotten out of hand there too. Yes, but there mag I just use the

[00:23:20] YouTubers who give me analysis videos afterwards, whether it's about movies or books

[00:23:26] is. That's also better for winding down. Tiktok is like that, it's like gambling a little bit, that

[00:23:34] keeps the dopamine level so high because there's always something new and always something new. And I think,

[00:23:40] it's extremely addictive because the videos are certainly very short, but

[00:23:45] from the fact that you have such an endless loop or on YouTube it's not like someone,

[00:23:49] how do you know that you can set it to go on endlessly, but you can just

[00:23:53] just turn it off and that's it. But with Tiktok it's like this, you keep scrolling down and

[00:23:57] down and it never stops. It's a lot, so it's up to you what you do with your free time,

[00:24:03] but I also think to myself privately, it's a lot of life time and the same goes for YouTube

[00:24:10] and you have to say that or even if you watch TV, it doesn't really matter. But

[00:24:16] at some point you have to ask yourself, am I doing it now because I'm still enjoying it or am I doing it

[00:24:22] it now because it's the less expensive option or alternative. But we would

[00:24:29] above all, are you using Booktok, where do you get your reading recommendations from?

[00:24:35] do you disagree with our opinion, do you like Booktok and if so, why are we wrong?

[00:24:41] write to us at post.stadtbibliothek@insbruck.gv.at or like us on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:24:51] With that, we say goodbye and see you again in a good month. Until then, we wish you all

[00:24:58] have fun with the preface of Innsbruck-List. We hand over to Lisi and Boris

[00:25:06] next week and see you soon. Have fun at Innsbruck-List, bye!

[00:25:10] The foreword is a production of the Innsbruck City Library and

[00:25:40] part of Stadtstimmen, the audio channel of the city of Innsbruck.

[00:00:00] Caution, listening to this podcast may lead to more visits to the library.

[00:00:06] Hello and welcome to "S'Vorwort", the podcast of the Innsbruck City Library.

[00:00:26] I am Christina.

[00:00:27] And I am Pia.

[00:00:28] And today we're talking about why we actually likedruckter books.

[00:00:33] But before we do that, a reminder.

[00:00:36] This year we are celebrating the 20th anniversary of 'Innsbruck reads'.

[00:00:42] Like every year, 10,000 books will be distributed.

[00:00:46] The kick-off is on 30.4.

[00:00:49] The campaign runs until 10.5.

[00:00:51] And, this is the most important date:

[00:00:53] The book will be announced on April 16th.

[00:00:58] We'll be able to announce it in the podcast and we're already very excited.

[00:01:02] From April 25th, something special is also happening, namely a friendly takeover from our colleagues Lisi and Boris.

[00:01:11] They are taking over "S'Vorwort" for a few episodes.

[00:01:13] And then there's the special edition of "S'Vorwort - Innsbruck liest".

[00:01:17] 10,000 free books and free events from April 30 to May 10.

[00:01:24] "Innsbruck reads", for the 20th time.

[00:01:27] So, enough of this. Back to other booksdrucked.

[00:01:34] And that's exactly what we notice every year at Innsbruck reads,

[00:01:38] where we distribute 10,000 books to the people of Innsbruck.

[00:01:43] How much people like thedruckte book and how much they appreciate it.

[00:01:48] And as practical as e-books can be, that's what we depend on.

[00:01:54] And I would include you in that, Pia, wouldn't I?

[00:01:57] Yes, of course.

[00:01:58] At thedrucked book.

[00:02:00] That's why we're dealing with it in today's episode,

[00:02:03] why it is still the case that we likedruckte books.

[00:02:08] And why that will probably remain the case in the future.

[00:02:12] The foreword now begins with the question of why we actually likedruckte books. To start with

[00:02:17] An interesting statistic after the big e-book hype of around 10 or 15 years ago,

[00:02:24] where it was previously said that thedruckte book was dead,

[00:02:28] the market share fordruprinted books has increased, at least in Germany,

[00:02:33] has leveled off at 6%.

[00:02:36] This is from a statistic from the year 2022 from Statista.

[00:02:41] Which I think is a very, very small market share, isn't it?

[00:02:46] Extremely, compared to what now exactly?

[00:02:49] In the overall book market.

[00:02:51] That means all the books that are out there, 6%, the ones in Germany

[00:02:58] come out with an ISBN, 6% of them are e-books.

[00:03:03] And the others, the rest, they have a 6% market share.

[00:03:07] So, okay, I thought thedrucached books have 6%.

[00:03:09] Oh no, oh no.

[00:03:11] That's way too neverdrig felt.

[00:03:13] Yes, I find that fascinating.

[00:03:17] I don't know, I also went through this phase where everyone said,

[00:03:20] well, that's when e-books came up, there are e-readers everywhere in 50 different versions.

[00:03:25] And there have been audiobooks all along anyway,

[00:03:28] so who is really going to pick up adruprinted book anymore

[00:03:32] and that this industry is basicallydroon the verge of extinction.

[00:03:36] But you can also see it in the book trade,

[00:03:39] We do have e-books, but that's a much smaller proportion

[00:03:42] than what we have in books.

[00:03:44] So, people still love that.

[00:03:47] Yes, you can see that more often.

[00:03:50] I think what's happening right now, when new technologies come onto the market,

[00:03:54] then it happens very quickly and probably especially in the media landscape:

[00:03:58] Boom and Gloom.

[00:04:00] The book is dead, long live the e-book.

[00:04:03] It is basically, one would think, also more practical.

[00:04:10] But there are just so many aspects to thedrucked book,

[00:04:13] that appeal to us as people, I think.

[00:04:16] I mean, if you talk about it from a librarian's point of view

[00:04:20] or just from a reader's point of view.

[00:04:23] So the feel is something when you have the book in your hand,

[00:04:29] you can feel it, really turn the pages and not just click on.

[00:04:34] So the smell of the book, how the pages feel.

[00:04:39] There are colleagues who want to remain unnamed,

[00:04:44] who regularly smell books and the extreme reading enthusiasts will know it.

[00:04:51] So that smell can be quite decisive for the reading experience.

[00:04:56] If it's well-made pages that also smell good, it's something nice.

[00:05:01] That's something completely different, of course,

[00:05:03] than just having a screen like this in front of you.

[00:05:06] And I can understand that too.

[00:05:09] What is also a big aspect is that the book is called a "cultural asset".

[00:05:16] The cultural significance of books, which also have a collector's value in a certain sense.

[00:05:22] So when we talk about antiquarian bookshops and antiquarian collections and so on,

[00:05:27] First editions, that's a whole branch of business.

[00:05:32] I mean antiquarian bookshops, they're also specialists in their field.

[00:05:36] The antiquarian bookshops that have first editions or old things

[00:05:42] or books that are no longer in print,

[00:05:45] that are no longer available anywhere, that the publisher no longer has in its program,

[00:05:48] of which there have never been e-books.

[00:05:50] But they still have them.

[00:05:53] And of course the German National Library also has the task of collecting all media.

[00:05:58] You mean like the state library here,

[00:06:01] that they collect everything that appears, so to speak.

[00:06:05] Exactly, because it's so important to do that,

[00:06:09] that you preserve this cultural heritage, like a museum.

[00:06:13] You also know that on a small scale.

[00:06:16] There are books that have been passed down from generation to generation in my family.

[00:06:20] And I think that has a completely different effect on yourself.

[00:06:25] If you know, the great-grandmother has already read this book.

[00:06:28] And now I can still read this collection of fairy tales by Grimm.

[00:06:31] Yes, that ha this added emotional value, that also conveys values.

[00:06:36] So the mere presence of the object in the room conveys something.

[00:06:40] And that's also what we notice every day in the library,

[00:06:44] people like to sit between the shelves.

[00:06:47] And even if you, well, just the presence of the media and the books,

[00:06:52] that gives you something, that shows.

[00:06:54] It does something to you.

[00:06:55] And what is it? It's a visualization of the value of literature

[00:07:00] in our space.

[00:07:03] To the space, yes.

[00:07:04] Thank you, exactly.

[00:07:05] The visualization of the value of literature in space.

[00:07:08] Exactly.

[00:07:10] Maybe a more negative aspect, but we'll go into that in a separate episode,

[00:07:15] is the consumer aspect of collecting haptic books,

[00:07:21] especially in the private sphere, i.e. when it comes to bookselling, but then also buying books,

[00:07:26] is definitely an important thing for the promotion of culture.

[00:07:31] So we can say that, but firstly, it's not accessible to everyone,

[00:07:35] because books cost a lot of money, not without good reason.

[00:07:40] But that's where it goes, so I play that a little bit on this new

[00:07:45] Booktalk consumer culture, but I'd like to have a chat with you about that

[00:07:50] do a separate episode with you, because it's extremely exciting.

[00:07:53] Yes, as an aesthetic.

[00:07:55] Good.

[00:07:56] But it's also part of it, an important part is the aesthetics.

[00:08:01] Pia, you collect books, don't you?

[00:08:03] Yes, less and less because I don't have any more space.

[00:08:07] But yes, the ones I like mag and where I find nice editions,

[00:08:11] That's something for me too, if they're nice editions, like jewelry editions or something,

[00:08:15] then I like to buy them and put them on my bookshelf.

[00:08:20] Although I will say, that has already become extremely limited for me.

[00:08:24] I used to, when I was still getting pocket money on a regular basis

[00:08:27] or had a job, for example.

[00:08:30] And what I could afford, cups were the first thing,

[00:08:32] what I could afford.

[00:08:34] And in the meantime, that's been reduced again,

[00:08:36] because there simply wasn't enough space.

[00:08:39] But it's nice, it's nice to have a haptic book at home

[00:08:43] and I know, ah, I have this beautiful decorative edition of Pride and Prejudice at home.

[00:08:48] That's something, something nice.

[00:08:51] And books are often like friends who accompany you.

[00:08:54] They accompany you on the train journey.

[00:08:57] And then I said that last week, when I met up with the , or the week before last,

[00:09:01] last episode, where I talked to Viktor.

[00:09:04] That for me, I still remember with the best books dran.

[00:09:07] Where and in what context you read them. Did you have that too?

[00:09:10] Yes, of course.

[00:09:11] I remember exactly which issue I read,

[00:09:13] I first read it in the school library of Pride and Prejudice.

[00:09:17] I can still remember that.

[00:09:18] And I remember exactly what that room smelled like

[00:09:21] and how the sun shone in through the window.

[00:09:24] So I have, I get exactly the same feeling,

[00:09:27] because I bought the exact same edition again.

[00:09:29] That was just a jewelry edition.

[00:09:31] And I always get the same feeling,

[00:09:34] when I can read it again.

[00:09:36] And a screen can't give you that.

[00:09:39] Yes.

[00:09:40] Not in that way.

[00:09:42] And I think the visual is also important.

[00:09:45] Because it also makes a difference how the typography is.

[00:09:48] So the font.

[00:09:50] That's always different in adruprinted book.

[00:09:53] You often have this serif font there, with these squiggles or something, light, just like Times New Roman. Where there are these little spikes or squiggles. You don't really have that in the digital sector. It's always sans serif most of the time and very clean. But you have to differentiate between non-fiction and non-fiction books and novels. I would also say that eBook readers are more likely to be used for novels or poetry, where serif fonts are also common. Where I think it also depends on the provider, depending on the publisher, which fonts are offered. Which fonts are licensed. What can be set on eBook readers where it is technically possible. What you use on the iPad or if you work with a tablet or browser anyway - I think that depends more on the type of book. And not every font in every book is always very fine. The Penguin editions, the classics, with very small fonts and very thin paper. The hang-up is that these are very inexpensive editions that everyone can afford. Which was the case. They always accompanied me throughout my studies. They were - so I look at them now and think to myself: My goodness, that was terrible to read. But it always depends on the layout. That's something else again. What you don't have with thedrucked book are technical limitations. I wrote that down too. No power, no pop-ups. If there's a power cut, as there was recently in Innsnruck. And you still have daylight, then you can grab the book and read. No updates. That sounds like it now â but it is, isn't it? Yes, of course. It's also the case that it won't be incompatible at some point. I had an old eBook reader, that company no longer exists. At some point I no longer had access to the store. That means I couldn't download any more books. That just doesn't happen with a book. It's always relevant and you can always read it. And you don't need a Wi-Fi password. Exactly. You shouldn't underestimate that either. Access to different technologies is always a privilege. I think it should be a basicdreright now, but it simply isn't in many regions of the world. It's still a hurdle. A book is low-threshold access to information. A thick book and the pages â and having finished reading it.

[00:12:47] That's always very important.

[00:12:49] To have finished reading it, to have experienced it so haptically, to hold it when it's so heavy.

[00:12:53] It just does something different to you. It makes a difference whether I've just read a thin booklet or not

[00:12:58] or a comic book or a thin one or an Anna Karenina or whatever.

[00:13:03] Then you also know, what did I have in my hand? So what did I have in my hand right now? Do I have the light,

[00:13:09] fine comic or the Anna Karenina that I was lugging around?

[00:13:12] Yes, and I think you always associate that with this work, don't you? When I think of

[00:13:16] Anna Karenina, I remember exactly what kind of edition it was and how thick it was

[00:13:19] and how it felt. When I think back to my e-book story now, about myself,

[00:13:26] the things I read there, I can never remember them like that dran now.

[00:13:29] You remember more how long you read it, but you don't contextualize it

[00:13:34] that less, I think, in this haptic form. Also very good, of course, what or

[00:13:42] Another thing that shouldn't be underestimated is the privacy that comes with a book.

[00:13:46] Because reading digitally, especially via certain providers or via an online store in a

[00:13:53] closed system means, as always, that someone is creating a user profile from your data.

[00:14:02] Kindle has, as we talked about at Goodreads drü, I believe that Kindle also has

[00:14:07] is also partially siphoning off data. And the book is private, it couldn't be more private.

[00:14:12] That's also a reason. So, data protection is simply a super important issue. In

[00:14:20] that's why we don't store any lending history, the history of the readers.

[00:14:27] So we don't have a lending history. Exactly, that means we simply don't know,

[00:14:31] who read it, i.e. what a reader read before that.

[00:14:35] And often people find it, so often people come to us and say,

[00:14:39] Oh, what do I have, I borrowed that book drei months ago, have a look,

[00:14:43] and we don't know. But now we have a great new feature that we can do now

[00:14:48] briefly mention again, if you magst, these are the watch lists. Exactly, that used to exist,

[00:14:53] a long time ago, and people wanted that again. And it's back again now,

[00:14:58] you can create as many watch lists as you want. For example, I also have some with To-Read,

[00:15:05] so things that I still want to read or things that I really enjoyed reading. You

[00:15:10] can also create a collection, so to speak, of books from a certain

[00:15:14] genre or something. For example, I have Cosy Crime, which I made for myself,

[00:15:17] of things that typically fit into this genre. So you can be very creative.

[00:15:22] You just need an account with us, you have to log in and then it works.

[00:15:26] Do you no longer need a Goodreads account if you have an account with the Innsbruck City Library? Yes,

[00:15:34] and other advantages of a checkeddrubook, there's a study that came out recently

[00:15:40] came out recently, where there were also some newspaper articles about it, especially on the advanced

[00:15:47] digitalization in schools since Corona. The Scandinavians have always been the pioneers there

[00:15:55] been the pioneers, right? And now they're going in a different direction. So the Karolinska Institute is called

[00:16:02] that's in Stockholm. They did this study and they examined it in detail and

[00:16:06] they found out that it doesn't necessarily only have advantages if you use school books or

[00:16:14] learning media are only offered digitally. I have a quote from this Klingberg, who is a professor

[00:16:24] for cognitive neuroscience, he said or wrote, depending on how intensive schools are,

[00:16:30] use computers, this has an impact on math and reading ability. The more a

[00:16:35] school relies on the internet and computers in lessons, the worse the performance of the

[00:16:39] children's performance. These are really clear effects that account for almost half of the differences in performance

[00:16:43] between schools. Insane. Yes, and then they also said,

[00:16:49] okay, we'll scale it back a bit now, less digitalization. We're going back

[00:16:53] back to the classic textbook. That has changed because I know that

[00:16:59] after 2020, it was also very much the case that if schools didn't have computers, it was the poorer ones

[00:17:05] schools or that was the poorer education. And it seems to us, now in retrospect, that it was like a hype, and

[00:17:14] that everyone was so excited about these new technologies and

[00:17:22] only then thought about what it actually does to us as people? And how do

[00:17:29] do we actually really absorb information? So do you also have the insightdruck that you don't get there until the

[00:17:36] in retrospect can you really recognize what makes sense and where you might be going too far?

[00:17:42] I think you're just so euphoric at first when you think to yourself, these are so

[00:17:45] many possibilities. You can see that now with AI, in the first moment, it was like this,

[00:17:49] perfect, everything has been solved, all our problems are gone. And now we're also starting to

[00:17:54] think about it, okay, maybe there are also a few negative sides to it that might also be

[00:17:58] have negative effects. And I think the same thing just happened with the textbook.

[00:18:03] I have to say, I didn't realize that myself, because of course in my

[00:18:06] school days, we simply still used traditional textbooks. We didn't have tablets yet

[00:18:10] at school yet. That was all apart from maybe a few CD-ROMs or something like that.

[00:18:17] But I can say from personal experience. When you learn digitally. So it's kind of,

[00:18:25] and if you then also, you listen, you only write on the computer, you read

[00:18:31] everything only on the computer and maybe you also do an online course and it has a lot of

[00:18:36] advantages too, of course. But I also have the feeling that this information is somehow only

[00:18:41] only exists in some kind of parts of the head, but never really in the haptic real

[00:18:51] world, that you then do the writing by hand, that you do the reading

[00:18:56] with the page where you turn back, where you mark something, where you stick something in,

[00:19:00] so that you can find your way back. So this whole haptic aspect, I think that's great,

[00:19:07] first of all subjectively understandable that it's missing. Yes, so I can also imagine it,

[00:19:13] because I can still remember it just like I can remember it,

[00:19:15] which books I read and when, when I actuallydruhad them in my hand

[00:19:20] I can also remember when I learned which things and how I learned them

[00:19:24] these exercise books looked like and how I marked things. On which page

[00:19:29] the information was written if you studied it so intensively. So I can always remember that

[00:19:34] still remember that and I think that's also an advantage and studies

[00:19:38] are now starting to think about it and prove it. Which is also totally maybe

[00:19:43] a bit off-topic but was also interesting information for me,

[00:19:48] was that all these Silicon Valley tech bosses, managers and so on, some of their offspring, so

[00:19:57] I mean, we're talking about social media now, but they don't let them until 14, some from

[00:20:02] 16 and ... And that some of them don't even use their own products and that's then

[00:20:09] kind of a product reference. Yes, so I think it's also more about social media than

[00:20:16] learning in the digital space. I can also imagine that there is of course also

[00:20:21] data will also be hacked. So I mean data protection will, it's probably always an issue in this

[00:20:28] context, you're absolutely right and also this lending of things, that: I'll lend you my

[00:20:36] math book or you can look at it with me, that's maybe something else or

[00:20:42] that I can just give you the... I'll copy it quickly, I can't do that anymore, maybe

[00:20:48] you can take screenshots, but that's something else again. Peter has now also sent me a

[00:20:54] Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, privately, so that I can read it now. That just works

[00:21:00] not at all with e-books, of course. You have a license and you can't

[00:21:04] lend it out and that's a real shame. That's also something, so in our library, we also have

[00:21:09] the WB department, that's the continuing education department, it's at the very end of the library and that

[00:21:14] is also almost a whole shelf just with continuing education media and we are also one of the few

[00:21:20] libraries that has such media, that offers us a lot of it and it works very well

[00:21:25] well, it's very well received, even if you can't write anything in them now,

[00:21:30] but still, I think people copy it at home and so on, so I think,

[00:21:34] people like that too. These are targeted school materials for children of all ages,

[00:21:39] You're absolutely right, you can just come here and that's where we are again, I mean, when schools

[00:21:44] provide that, the technology, the necessary hardware, then that's one thing,

[00:21:50] but also there, you need media literacy, you need the know-how, how to use

[00:21:58] this hardware at all ... and how do I get into the various portals, into the software,

[00:22:04] how does it all work and there are certainly enough people and enough parents who can't afford it

[00:22:10] and that's also, as we've seen in the corona pandemic, that's where

[00:22:18] things are assumed that can't yet be the status quo and it's great,

[00:22:24] how well that's being used and always, so that's one of the great things that I've also seen in the

[00:22:32] "German as a foreign language" books, these further education books. Of course, there are online

[00:22:39] courses for languages, but there are simply media, there are simply books and other

[00:22:45] types of media that cannot be replaced for a very, very long time yet and perhaps never will be

[00:22:55] will ever be. I also believe, well, I believe that it will never completely disappear. The publishing industry

[00:22:59] is more successful than ever. Yes. Bookstore sales are shooting through the roof. They

[00:23:05] have risen even more during Corona. Yeah, but I don't know about you,

[00:23:10] maybe that's a good conclusion for the episode as well. I myself use, so 90% of the time

[00:23:17] actually reallydruckte books, that's what I use the most mag. Sometimes I also use

[00:23:21] e-books, of course they also have advantages, especially for traveling, that's what,

[00:23:24] what I like, so where I like to use it. How do you prefer it, then? Cookeddrubooks or

[00:23:29] do you prefer e-books? I think you're the audiobook-¦. I hear exactly. Yes, that's right, that's also very

[00:23:35] digital, because I listen to all my audiobooks digitally via streaming. That's right, that's actually

[00:23:41] a very digital form of consumption, but I also read a lot of books and then I like them very much

[00:23:48] haptically and that has also increased a lot since I've had the privilege of reading so

[00:23:55] spend a lot of time in a library, because of course... You're at the source. Yes, exactly,

[00:24:01] because the source regularly feeds me new books, so to speak, which I can then enjoy. And

[00:24:07] that's not a detour at all and then it's like a land of milk and honey there that

[00:24:12] to enjoy. Whereby we will certainly also find a lot of customers in the future and

[00:24:18] will also make an episode, âWhy do we actually like e-books, because just as many or some advantages

[00:24:24] we will certainly find there too. Just like I said, I like to use it for traveling, that's where

[00:24:31] that's simply also an advantage. Yes, and with that we say goodbye to the foreword today. We

[00:24:36] thank you for your attention. What do you prefer? Do you prefer cookeddrucups? Are you

[00:24:44] already going completely digital? Write to us at post.stadtbibliothek@insbruck.gv.at or

[00:24:54] Instagram or Facebook. The hashtag is #gemeinsambesser. Yes, and until then. Bye bye!

[00:25:02] The foreword is a production of the Innsbruck City Library and part of the

[00:25:32] Stadtstimmen, the audio channel of the city of Innsbruck.

[00:00:00] Caution, listening to this podcast may lead to more visits to the library.

[00:00:07] Yes, hello and welcome to S'Vorwort, the podcast of the Innsbruck City Library.

[00:00:27] My name is Christina and I'm here today with the...

[00:00:29] Viktor.

[00:00:30] And today we're talking about why we actually like good books and what good books actually are.

[00:00:38] But today, before we get into the topic, I have some very exciting news,

[00:00:44] that this year, on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of Innsbruck-Liest,

[00:00:50] Innsbruck-Liest will move to the foreword from April 25th.

[00:00:55] There will be a so-called friendly takeover from our colleagues, Lisi and Boris.

[00:01:01] And they will then delight us with very special episodes.

[00:01:06] Innsbruck-Liest, takes place this year from April 30th to April 10th.

[00:01:12] 10,000 books will be distributed and on 16.4.

[00:01:17] And that's really the date to remember now, the book will be published

[00:01:22] and of course the author will be announced.

[00:01:26] 10,000 free books and free events from April 30 to May 10.

[00:01:35] Innsbruck Reads for the 20th time.

[00:01:38] It remains exciting, we are very happy.

[00:01:43] But now back to our topic.

[00:01:45] Dear Viktor, it's great that you're here. Thank you for taking the time.

[00:01:48] Thank you very much for the invitation.

[00:01:50] We're excited because this is my podcast debut today.

[00:01:54] You've chosen a very nice topic.

[00:01:57] Or we have chosen a very nice topic that is also wonderful to discuss.

[00:02:01] I'm really looking forward to it drabecause I think we might have slightly different opinions.

[00:02:05] Yes, exactly. That will be extra exciting, won't it?

[00:02:07] Exactly, that's ... that's how it should be.

[00:02:09] Before we start, because we think about why we have good books.

[00:02:14] What is a good book? And we both come from the field of literary studies.

[00:02:18] What did you study?

[00:02:20] I'm a comparatist. That means I studied comparative literature here in Innsbruck.

[00:02:24] I also completed my bachelor's degree some time ago.

[00:02:28] I think I graduated in 2019. So, it's been a while.

[00:02:31] But the desire to read remains, of course.

[00:02:34] And of course you want to read good books.

[00:02:37] And the canon doesn't get old, it remains.

[00:02:42] And that's also the canon we're talking about.

[00:02:45] I also have a background in comparative literature, so I also studied comparative literature.

[00:02:50] And there's a lot of discussion about what a literary canon actually is.

[00:02:56] In short, just so that we have this predefined for our episode,

[00:03:02] as follows: A literary canon refers to a selection of works that are considered particularly significant

[00:03:08] and representative of a particular literary tradition or period.

[00:03:13] These works are often compiled and defined by institutions such as schools, universities and literary critics.

[00:03:22] The formation of a literary canon often occurs through a mixture of historical significance,

[00:03:28] cultural relevance, aesthetic quality and the lasting influence

[00:03:35] on subsequent generations of writers and readers.

[00:03:41] However, it is important to note that literary canons are often subjective

[00:03:47] and remain changeable over time as new perspectives, values and texts are brought into the discussion.

[00:03:55] So it's not a fixed thing, but of course people turn to the same texts again and again.

[00:04:01] Would you agree with the definition, pi by thumb?

[00:04:04] The definition is now very detailed and there are already a lot of things drin,

[00:04:09] which I can clearly agree with and which I consider to be very important.

[00:04:13] What is very important, I think, and what is of course also in the definition drinsteckt,

[00:04:18] is that you have to say and point out that the canon is not fixed.

[00:04:26] There are really many canons, canons, I don't know what the number is.

[00:04:31] Kannon? - Kanoni, something will be right.

[00:04:34] There are a lot of things and it just changes. New things are added, other things are forgotten,

[00:04:39] Some things are then no longer received in the same way, other things become very, as they say,

[00:04:45] known more than read. So these are things that you just know, so to speak,

[00:04:51] because it's also in the whole culture, not just in literature, but in cultural history,

[00:04:55] has simply left an influence.

[00:04:57] But it doesn't mean that people have actually studied it, they've just heard about it,

[00:05:03] So the classic example, I would say, in Western literature and culture is simply the Bible.

[00:05:08] As striking as the cultural history of the West is, you can't understand it without the Bible,

[00:05:13] But who has really read the Bible? Well, except really now,

[00:05:18] Hardcore Catholics who really go into the text and look at it, but, I don't know,

[00:05:25] An eye for an eye, tooth and tooth and things like that, anyone can really get that from the FF,

[00:05:31] but where does it come from, what does it really mean, is of course an important story too, exactly.

[00:05:35] And because you just mentioned the Bible, which is one of the basic texts in literary studies,

[00:05:40] of Western literature, as you just said.

[00:05:42] With the Odyssey, exactly.

[00:05:44] An example of why canon is important, the number twelve, which in the Bible, for example, on the basis of the apostles

[00:05:51] or various other things, you find it again and again in literature and processed further.

[00:05:59] That means a lot of novels, one of my literature professors used to say,

[00:06:05] Look, how many chapters does the novel actually have?

[00:06:08] And the number twelve usually has a meaning in literature,

[00:06:11] People, the writers, think about it because of the literary tradition.

[00:06:17] And that's where you go back to.

[00:06:19] That's what the canon does and creates a bit.

[00:06:23] And in my opinion, that's also a bit of what's problematic about the canon.

[00:06:27] Especially in comparative literature, but maybe we'll come back to that later.

[00:06:32] First of all, we thought of something really cool today, because we talked about it,

[00:06:36] we came up with the episode idea because we talked to each other and asked ourselves the question

[00:06:41] what are good books for us.

[00:06:45] And then we said, you know what, let's take ... the challenge is,

[00:06:50] that each of us takes two books and then just tells us once,

[00:06:56] why these books were important to us, respectively.

[00:06:59] One of them is from traditional canon literature.

[00:07:03] Here I would also like to point out that it is of course national,

[00:07:08] the national canon or the so-called world literature.

[00:07:13] As a primarily English-speaking person, I orient myself more towards the world literary canon.

[00:07:19] I don't know about you.

[00:07:21] Well, I also, I would say it's both for me, it's both for me.

[00:07:26] Because it's, for example, I have now, if I may say so, I have for example

[00:07:29] my own personal copy of Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes,

[00:07:33] which is of course an important book for the Spanish canon,

[00:07:37] but is of course also a central book for the world canon.

[00:07:41] It is often said that it is the most important book in the history of literature,

[00:07:46] which of course you can say now, which is kind of nonsense,

[00:07:48] you can't say that about any book, because the book has, in its natural national context

[00:07:53] a meaning, which another book in a different national context, for example,

[00:07:57] that has a meaning.

[00:07:58] In other words, it is both national and world literature in this sense,

[00:08:03] but of course exactly, so you can make a distinction.

[00:08:06] But world literature, the world is so globalized, so even the national canon

[00:08:12] are now ultimately included in world literature in some way, of course.

[00:08:17] Yes, so this national canon doesn't really exist anymore,

[00:08:22] or you don't think about it anymore, because genres are also developing,

[00:08:25] Take crime fiction, for example, just to throw that in,

[00:08:28] that came from the English-speaking world and from France

[00:08:32] and then developed in our country, not at all out of our own literary tradition.

[00:08:36] And the twist in the whole episode is that we also set ourselves the goal.

[00:08:42] Each of us has also chosen the second book from - I have it lovingly

[00:08:47] trashy literature - so just station literature,

[00:08:52] pulp fiction, whatever you want to call it that's not in the canon

[00:08:56] and what our, probably, we'll both be like that,

[00:08:59] our comparative literature professors might have said:

[00:09:02] "We don't really need to talk about that today."

[00:09:05] But it's still a good book, isn't it?

[00:09:07] But it's still a good book.

[00:09:09] Now I'm curious about the reasons.

[00:09:11] Exactly, you've already started with the Cervantes.

[00:09:14] Why is that, why, does it mean so much to you?

[00:09:18] Exactly, so you have that in your definition, that was already drinnen

[00:09:22] and I think that's one of the things I like about canon literature

[00:09:26] and that I simply appreciate about canon literature.

[00:09:28] And why I think the canon is good is simply because these books have often done things differently.

[00:09:35] So I don't think you can think of canon literature separately from literary history.

[00:09:41] That was already well defined in your definition drin.

[00:09:43] In other words, Cervantes and Cervantes' Don Quixote are simply one book,

[00:09:49] that first of all reacted to literature itself.

[00:09:52] So you have to imagine that in the Middle Ages there were a lot of chivalric novels

[00:09:56] and Don Quixote came out at a time when this wave of chivalric novels was already dying down,

[00:10:02] it was already over again.

[00:10:04] And then Cervantes writes a book about Don Quixote, where you just realize,

[00:10:08] he really read a lot of knightly novels.

[00:10:10] And these are all the top boys, all the things that make up a chivalric novel, are drin.

[00:10:18] But what did Cervantes do?

[00:10:20] His protagonist, Don Quixote, when you read the novel, you just realize it.

[00:10:25] He's actually a madman, he's somehow insane.

[00:10:29] He's just fantasizing it all, as I said, that's where what we've already mentioned comes in briefly.

[00:10:35] These are things that everyone knows from Don Quixote, for example, the fight against the windmills,

[00:10:40] where Don Quixote says that he now has a giant or an evil opponent against whom he must fight.

[00:10:46] And then as a reader you learn that windmills are actually a reality.

[00:10:50] That's only in his imagination.

[00:10:52] In other words, this is actually one of the first books where you have a protagonist,

[00:10:58] who actually, where you think to yourself, he's out of his depth, so there's just a madman.

[00:11:03] And it's just so well done and so new and just so, and it was so successful and so, so influential.

[00:11:15] But did you get carried away reading it?

[00:11:17] Totally, totally.

[00:11:18] Because it's just...

[00:11:19] You can hear the enthusiasm in your voice, I almost fell asleep reading it.

[00:11:22] Really?

[00:11:23] Do you actually have it?

[00:11:24] No, it's so well done.

[00:11:26] And it's just funny.

[00:11:27] And I think that joke, so I really loved the book.

[00:11:32] And that has also left its mark.

[00:11:36] So you can't write a chivalry novel after Cervantes, you make a fool of yourself somehow,

[00:11:41] because if you were still in the 16th century when something new came out,

[00:11:46] then it always happened against the background of Don Quixote, for example.

[00:11:51] In other words, it left its mark on the history of literature, but also on the history of art.

[00:11:57] Unfortunately, people don't see it now, my great edition from DTV, from Susanne Lange, a super translation.

[00:12:04] What has come out, new translations, is a picture drauf and that is also quite famous.

[00:12:09] It's by Picasso.

[00:12:10] It's this painting by Picasso, where Don Quixote is with his squire, who is called Sancho Panza, I think.

[00:12:17] Yes, Sancho Panza, I get flashbacks to my studies.

[00:12:20] Drauf is and where Picasso then really many centuries later still received this thing in art history,

[00:12:28] because of course that was also a certain, how shall we put it, state of mind of the modern age, where people simply began to doubt people's ability to judge and their capacity for knowledge based on philosophical tradition and the like.

[00:12:44] That's from philosophy with Descartes, who asked what can I actually know and so on, so all this uncertainty and can I even recognize that?

[00:12:54] Or are we actually all crazy like Don Quixote and only see things the way we want to see them?

[00:13:00] So, of course, it's also a zeitgeist that has been captured and then translated into this Wessel, this knight's novel, which is of course super, super well done.

[00:13:13] This chivalric novel is something that people knew back then and Cervantes simply put this image on drait and then made something new draout of it.

[00:13:23] That's why I'm a big fan.

[00:13:25] I also believe that good literature and expectations are always shifting.

[00:13:30] And that's whether you're talking about a beast like Don Quixote, which has left such a big mark on literary history, or small genre literature, we always enjoy the things that subvert our expectations in whatever way the most.

[00:13:49] And that's the exciting thing about reading, about stories in general.

[00:13:55] Exactly.

[00:13:56] I brought Virginia Woolf's "A Room to Myself" with me and I'm sure that has also left a big mark on literary history.

[00:14:08] But my reasons are more personal, because I remember when I was in my early 20s.

[00:14:16] That fell into my hands.

[00:14:18] I'm an English major, not an American major.

[00:14:20] That means Virginia Woolf was an American writer and then of course very, very famous.

[00:14:25] But for me...

[00:14:27] she was just a name. I didn't know who she was, what she was writing.

[00:14:31] It's a modernist text and she wrote it in 1929.

[00:14:36] So forever away, at first I felt.

[00:14:40] Not nearly as old as Don Quixote, of course.

[00:14:43] And then it fell into my hands and it was such a short essay,

[00:14:47] is not long. And I discovered it quite independently while I was studying.

[00:14:54] And I remember where I was when I read it.

[00:14:57] I know what the light was like, I know what the pages were like.

[00:15:00] You know when you remember that in more detail?

[00:15:02] That's such a personal memory.

[00:15:04] Exactly.

[00:15:05] And then I thought, this book is over 100 years old

[00:15:10] and what the woman writes are issues that concern me now in my mid-20s as a woman

[00:15:14] in this century, in this millennium.

[00:15:18] "A room to yourself" is about female creativity, female independence

[00:15:27] and the emphasis on being materially and spatially independent,

[00:15:34] as a woman in order to create things.

[00:15:36] And also about that, and that's why I brought it,

[00:15:39] because then we can talk about the canon again so beautifully,

[00:15:41] It's also about the fact that women can't look back on a literary tradition.

[00:15:47] And that women also need a space, even in a canon,

[00:15:53] to develop creatively.

[00:15:56] And I found that verydruimpressive.

[00:15:59] I felt that way while I was in a degree program

[00:16:05] which, I think you'll probably agree, is very characterized,

[00:16:10] the literary canon is white and male.

[00:16:14] Like many things of course in the patriarchy, most 80, 90 percent of the texts,

[00:16:22] that we've discussed in comparative literature,

[00:16:26] because we were talking about literary history, were written by men.

[00:16:29] Yes, of course that's a big criticism and a very justified criticism

[00:16:33] of Kranon.

[00:16:34] And that's true, you can't argue that away, of course.

[00:16:37] Because of course canon and canonization is always a question of power.

[00:16:43] Because of course it's always important who can write and who is heard.

[00:16:47] Those are two important points.

[00:16:49] And of course that was unfortunate, you have to say. The majority of literary history

[00:16:56] were of course men and of course actually white men or Western men,

[00:17:00] Let's put it this way, it's a Western canon.

[00:17:02] And upper class, so privileged too, of course.

[00:17:05] Those were the ones who could read and write,

[00:17:08] who had access to literature or writing in the first place

[00:17:10] or language in writing at all, so to speak.

[00:17:13] And that's a big problem, of course.

[00:17:15] And what I said, of course you have to do that beforehand,

[00:17:19] if Don Quixote, of course, you have to revise it a bit.

[00:17:22] Because of course it's like that, if you have one,

[00:17:26] so if you ask a Romanist who specializes in the literature of the 16th century

[00:17:31] all his life, then of course he will be able to say,

[00:17:34] there are also precursor texts for Don Quixote,

[00:17:37] they are definitely forgotten,

[00:17:39] because they simply fell victim to history.

[00:17:43] That is, of course, if you're specialized enough,

[00:17:45] then of course you can say, yes, yes, what Cervantes did,

[00:17:48] is actually not that modern, it also has a history.

[00:17:52] And that is of course, so you always have to keep that in mind.

[00:17:56] Nevertheless, what we have there,

[00:17:59] is of course intrinsic and very good in itself.

[00:18:06] It's a pity, of course, that a lot of things that were otherwise very good,

[00:18:10] because of these trating mechanisms, unfortunately the history

[00:18:15] a bit of a victim of history.

[00:18:17] But thank God, one must also say,

[00:18:19] it's also the case that the canon is constantly being revised.

[00:18:23] And just as you said, Virginia Woolf is a good example,

[00:18:27] finding women beforehand, it also falls to me quickly,

[00:18:31] Shelley, who wrote Frankenstein.

[00:18:33] That's right, there are a few, there are exceptions,

[00:18:37] There are, of course, but that really just confirms the rule.

[00:18:39] But in the last 100 years, the canon has been revised again and again.

[00:18:44] And that is precisely on a gender basis.

[00:18:46] So a lot of female literature has been added and rediscovered.

[00:18:52] And of course there's also a lot of it,

[00:18:54] from the post-colonial-study side, i.e. not European,

[00:19:00] non-European literature has also added a lot.

[00:19:04] And you could also see that there was great literature there too,

[00:19:09] great ideas, worlds that perhaps don't always correspond to the West,

[00:19:14] but which are also really interesting and where there are also traditions,

[00:19:18] which is also worth receiving.

[00:19:20] So it's very, very important to always keep that in mind.

[00:19:23] Exactly. But enough about Kann.

[00:19:25] What kind of trash do you have?

[00:19:28] What kind of trash do I have with me? I've already gotten a little bit of smut

[00:19:30] by our colleague Pia, with whom we talked about it briefly beforehand.

[00:19:33] Pia had a bit of a shag?

[00:19:34] Yes, so Pia doesn't scold.

[00:19:36] Pia can't do that, and Pia isn't capable of it.

[00:19:39] But Pia said that what you brought as trash,

[00:19:42] could actually be described as canon again.

[00:19:44] I made an extra effort to bring extra trash.

[00:19:46] Extra trash.

[00:19:47] And I brought, that was the first thing I thought of,

[00:19:51] was Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" or in German

[00:19:56] "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is.

[00:19:58] And when Viktor says "brought along", he really means it

[00:20:00] in the literal sense, because he has the books with him.

[00:20:03] Of course I have the books with me, because I need to know,

[00:20:04] what I'm talking about, I can't put it in front of my mind's [00:20:07] eye

[00:20:07] eye. And The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is of course

[00:20:11] actually a bit of a

[00:20:14] classic and is of course already well received.

[00:20:18] Classic sci-fi literature. Classic sci-fi, exactly.

[00:20:21] But of course it's a genre, it's much younger.

[00:20:25] It's just a book that's incredibly

[00:20:30] great wit.

[00:20:32] It's just, well, when you say,

[00:20:35] Don Quixote was too boring for you, you would say that about The Hitchhiker's

[00:20:38] Guide to the Galaxy, you'd probably never say that, would you?

[00:20:40] You must have read it, I imagine?

[00:20:42] No. I'm not a sci-fi fan.

[00:20:43] Okay. Yeah, it's just ...

[00:20:45] You would recommend it to me.

[00:20:45] I would highly recommend it.

[00:20:47] I think it's very entertaining, very funny.

[00:20:50] I think it's just good literature.

[00:20:54] It's just a weird premise.

[00:20:57] Exactly. The earth is supposed to be torn down to make a highway,

[00:21:02] because it's in the way of the highway in the galaxy.

[00:21:07] And that's the starting point, so to speak, where it's all about.

[00:21:10] And then what great adventures the protagonists have in space

[00:21:16] and what strange characters they meet there.

[00:21:20] And that's just very entertaining.

[00:21:23] I have to say, yes.

[00:21:24] And do you remember where you were, where you read that?

[00:21:27] The first time.

[00:21:28] Do you still have a tactile memory of that?

[00:21:30] Well, unfortunately I don't.

[00:21:33] For me, it always comes from a good book.

[00:21:35] That's when a haptic memory forms in me.

[00:21:38] When I have the book in my hand again and briefly think about the content

[00:21:41] and remember how I found it, then I remember where I was.

[00:21:45] Well, unfortunately I didn't.

[00:21:47] Too bad, I wish I had.

[00:21:47] That's hectic.

I would like that, to be honest.

[00:21:49] But I can't say that about this book right now, well.

[00:21:51] But it's genre literature.

[00:21:54] And we comparatists know that genre is very hard,

[00:21:57] to be recognized, especially in literary studies.

[00:22:02] It's true that crime fiction is now slowly becoming recognized, that's so...

[00:22:05] Now the historical novels are coming, they're being taken seriously.

[00:22:10] And the genre always has to prove itself somehow first,

[00:22:14] but many decades ...

[00:22:16] Forming a canon.

[00:22:17] Exactly.

[00:22:18] And then we can talk about it again, something like that.

[00:22:22] Okay, mine is "She" by Stephen King.

[00:22:27] It's called "Misery" in English.

[00:22:30] That's the name of the movie with Kathy Bates.

[00:22:34] Always worth watching again.

[00:22:37] That's from 1987, the book.

[00:22:39] And yes, it's also a genre novel.

[00:22:43] My genre is horror in that case, not sci-fi.

[00:22:47] It's super psychological.

[00:22:49] It's about the number one fan, the Annie Wilkes,

[00:22:52] who accidentally rescues the writer Paul Sheldon in the snow in Colorado in a car.

[00:23:01] And he thinks he's saved.

[00:23:03] But then she asks him to write the series of novels,

[00:23:07] that she's such a big fan of.

[00:23:10] And she's totally psychopathic.

[00:23:12] And then she famously breaks his foot.

[00:23:14] And he has to be there for her in this ...

[00:23:17] He's locked in the house with him.

[00:23:19] He can't move.

[00:23:20] He's hurt from the car accident she rescued him from.

[00:23:24] And nobody knows where he is.

[00:23:25] And he has to sign himself out of it, so to speak.

[00:23:29] So for me, that's how I read it,

[00:23:31] also a bit of a meta-commentary,

[00:23:34] of course, that Stephen King, who is processing something,

[00:23:39] which he always does.

[00:23:40] And it has a kind of chamber play feel to it.

[00:23:43] It's very psychological.

[00:23:45] And I have it in front of my eyes.

[00:23:47] I know how Paul Sheldon sits in the room,

[00:23:50] with his foot up.

[00:23:52] And in front of him he has the screaming machine.

[00:23:53] And I remember seeing the window.

[00:23:56] And how he hears Annie's footsteps.

[00:23:59] And here I am again.

[00:24:00] And that's just a sign for me ...

[00:24:03] Hey, I really liked that.

[00:24:05] And I remember I really liked the language back then.

[00:24:08] And it was fantastic too.

[00:24:10] Stephen King writes one way, then another.

[00:24:12] He also has a hard time with endings.

[00:24:14] In my opinion, Misery is one of his,

[00:24:17] if not his best, I have to say.

[00:24:20] I think that's very good.

[00:24:21] Because like sci-fi is not your genre,

[00:24:23] crime fiction is not my genre.

[00:24:25] But you've got me a bit hooked now.

[00:24:27] So I ...

[00:24:28] Maybe if we did that,

[00:24:29] we certainly have that in stock,

[00:24:30] then maybe I'll borrow it.

[00:24:31] And then I'll have a good thing for the weekend.

[00:24:34] Good keyword, we have it in stock.

[00:24:37] Because it was first ...

[00:24:38] We just ordered the new edition of Misery

[00:24:40] in the original English and we also have it in German.

[00:24:43] And it's probably already gone.

[00:24:45] Shall we do the following?

[00:24:47] You read Misery, I'll read Hitchhiker's Guide.

[00:24:51] And then we'll tell each other in a distant episode of the podcast

[00:24:54] again how we found it.

[00:24:56] I think that would be very nice.

[00:24:57] That would be a great thing.

[00:24:59] Yeah, cool.

[00:25:00] But now to answer the question again,

[00:25:05] why do we like good books, I think is obvious.

[00:25:09] Because it's fun.

[00:25:12] Exactly.

[00:25:13] Well, I think it's just a pleasure,

[00:25:17] to read things like that.

[00:25:18] And just ...

[00:25:20] So the canon literature has ...

[00:25:25] It's just great to see, for example.

[00:25:28] I've brought you several more books,

[00:25:30] If you look at Ulysses, for example.

[00:25:33] As well as the Odyssey, for example.

[00:25:36] That is, that's, well, that didn't come up at all,

[00:25:38] but good writers are simply literary people.

[00:25:42] And literary people simply read a lot.

[00:25:46] And what's in the Odyssey or in the Bible,

[00:25:48] in these oldest texts that Western literature has history,

[00:25:53] simply drin, that is simply processed again and again.

[00:25:56] And of course, time changes.

[00:25:58] That means that the ...

[00:26:01] So how people use these things changes too.

[00:26:05] And then it's always new.

[00:26:07] And there are new twists and new perspectives,

[00:26:09] new perspectives.

[00:26:10] And then, of course, if you have the background knowledge

[00:26:14] and you've already read the Odyssey, then of course you read Ulysses

[00:26:17] again with completely different eyes.

[00:26:19] And good writers are always good readers.

[00:26:22] And it's just great when you get a ...

[00:26:26] Maybe you have a bit of background knowledge,

[00:26:28] then you take away so much more,

[00:26:30] although of course you can also read it,

[00:26:32] without the background knowledge and have a great book.

[00:26:34] But that's also what the women often did,

[00:26:36] They wrote against the canon,

[00:26:39] they simply appropriated characters from the canon.

[00:26:42] That is, there ... so it's also,

[00:26:44] the canon is also a ...

[00:26:46] weapon against the canon.

[00:26:48] So there's so much to say and after.

[00:26:50] And writing is an incredibly interesting topic.

[00:26:53] And the literary canon and the so-called deconstruction of the canon,

[00:27:00] will probably be with us again and again in this podcast,

[00:27:03] resonate again and again.

[00:27:05] Writers, as you said so well,

[00:27:09] always write in a tradition.

[00:27:11] And good books for me are independent of,

[00:27:19] whether they are so-called high world literature

[00:27:23] or so-called low genre literature.

[00:27:26] They write in a tradition and what applies to the canon,

[00:27:30] applies to any good writer.

[00:27:32] Whether they're writing horror or sci-fi.

[00:27:35] It's good if you know your stuff,

[00:27:37] with what you do, like a good craftsman.

[00:27:40] Exactly, it's a craft of course,

[00:27:42] in a way too.

[00:27:44] Yes, Viktor, thank you so much for being with us today.

[00:27:47] Thank you very much for inviting me.

[00:27:48] It was as much fun as I thought it would be.

[00:27:51] Well, I'm glad.

[00:27:52] You were incredibly informative.

[00:27:54] I hope we can do it again.

[00:27:57] That would be, I would love to, yes.

[00:27:59] And with that, we'll say goodbye for today.

[00:28:03] What do you think?

[00:28:05] Makes a good book.

[00:28:07] Write it down for us at post.stadtbibliothek@innsbruck.gv.at

[00:28:11] or on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:28:14] The hashtag is #Gemeinsambesser

[00:28:16] And until then, all the best.

[00:28:19] [Music]

[00:28:45] The foreword is a production of the Innsbruck City Library

[00:28:49] and part of Stadtstimmen, the audio channel of the city of Innsbruck.

[00:00:00] Caution, listening to this podcast may lead to more visits to the library.

[00:00:07] Welcome to the foreword. I am Christina.

[00:00:24] And I'm Pia.

[00:00:25] And today we're talking about the Oscars.

[00:00:28] Hey Pia, I was on Filmfriend again and watched the Oscar collection.

[00:00:33] Did you know that was again? The Oscars?

[00:00:36] I was peripherally aware, yes, that the Oscars were back.

[00:00:40] But what is Filmfriend anyway?

[00:00:42] Filmfriend is our movie streaming service that we have as a library.

[00:00:46] That means that everyone who is a member of our library can also stream films online.

[00:00:51] Exactly, and they offer different movies for children and adults,

[00:00:57] so for different age groups.

[00:00:59] It's just included in our annual subscription, it's a really great service.

[00:01:04] And they also have different collections and apparently the Oscars are now included.

[00:01:08] Because the Oscars were on March 10th.

[00:01:10] And I don't know about you, but it always makes me want to watch movies.

[00:01:15] Yeah, extremely.

[00:01:16] I'm also interested in what won and what the bigger prizes are,

[00:01:21] so best movie, best actress, best actor, who won that.

[00:01:26] Because then I might think about watching it, I have to say.

[00:01:30] Yeah, why do we like the Oscars so much?

[00:01:33] And why are they so prevalent in our Austrian culture?

[00:01:37] I ask myself, when we have nothing to do with Hollywood except, of course, peripherally,

[00:01:42] but of course the American film market and the film industry have such a huge influence on our lives

[00:01:50] and therefore on our cultural organization, if you want to call it that, right?

[00:01:54] Yes, and if we ever win an Oscar, then it's "Oh, Christoph Waltz, he's won something again."

[00:01:58] Oh yeah, exactly.

[00:01:59] "Now we have the Oscar as Austrians."

[00:02:01] Our man at the Oscars.

[00:02:03] The funniest thing is that in Germany, Christoph Waltz is practically treated as a German.

[00:02:13] When the Germans write, the German newspapers then report on the Oscars and say,

[00:02:18] "Christoph Waltz, Austrian, living in, and then, when he's just been in Germany for a moment,

[00:02:23] then Germany basically won.

[00:02:26] That's how it is, then they appropriate it, right?

[00:02:29] Fascinating.

[00:02:30] Yes, they didn't do it that way with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[00:02:34] Yeah, he's from California, that doesn't count anymore.

[00:02:37] Yeah, what are the Oscars?

[00:02:41] They have a very long and illustrious history, they were held on January 11, 1927,

[00:02:48] Louis B. Mayer, who was a very influential, very powerful head of the Hollywood studio MGM,

[00:02:56] so "so Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer", gathered people around him

[00:03:02] and so that day is considered the birth of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences.

[00:03:08] So, it was simply decided that we needed a prestigious award,

[00:03:12] because awards do one thing, they bring attention and of course they legitimize in a way...

[00:03:24] The industry itself.

[00:03:25] The industry, exactly.

[00:03:26] Then there was the first award ceremony in 1929. But nobody was interested in that.

[00:03:33] That's why it was broadcast on the radio for the first time in 1930

[00:03:38] and in 1934, Walt Disney thanked everyone for the so-called Oscar in his acceptance speech,

[00:03:46] we've been calling it the whole time now, it's a bit controversial whether Disney now the character,

[00:03:51] that's now, everybody knows the Oscars, I think, the almond cast in gold,

[00:03:55] whether that, why is it called the Oscar and 34 was the first time it was proven that someone called it that, the Oscar.

[00:04:02] But why it's called the Oscar, that's very controversial, that was, I haven't found out,

[00:04:11] 39, and that's important, I think, for our episode today, when we talk about different topics,

[00:04:17] about the Oscars.

[00:04:19] In 1939, Hattie McDaniel was the first black woman to win an Oscar for her role as Mammy in "Gone with the Wind",

[00:04:27] for best supporting actress.

[00:04:29] Not so fun fact, by the way, she was the first black woman to not only win,

[00:04:34] but who was a guest at the awards and was not there as a servant.

[00:04:39] And also very controversial, of course, is that the portrayal of this mammy,

[00:04:45] that in the southern states of the grateful servant, was very stereotyped.

[00:04:52] Yes, exactly, and then that's exactly why there's still, so that's very controversial.

[00:04:58] Also this stereotypical portrayal of black women in movies or black people,

[00:05:06] basic movies.

[00:05:08] Then in 1941 they decided it was a big secret who was going to win,

[00:05:12] because before that they always chose or drew the winners a week in advance,

[00:05:16] and then everyone knew, then the secrecy was introduced,

[00:05:22] to increase interest in the award ceremony.

[00:05:26] And then in 1953 it was televised for the first time.

[00:05:31] That's super important because that was basically the birth of this TV event,

[00:05:36] that we still know today.

[00:05:38] Some people even throw Oscar parties and then meet up for popcorn and champagne

[00:05:43] and then watch it.

[00:05:45] It's a live broadcast.

[00:05:47] And the first black woman to win in '94 was Whoopi Goldberg.

[00:05:51] Notably, she was also the first woman to host the Oscar show alone.

[00:05:56] In 2000, the first female producer of a movie won an Oscar.

[00:06:02] That was Lilly Finnic Sanop.

[00:06:04] And based on the data I picked out from this Oscar story,

[00:06:09] you can probably guess what our points of contact were,

[00:06:14] our points of contact, namely,

[00:06:17] that the Oscars were primarily an event founded by white men, of course.

[00:06:25] And that's why over the years there's been a certain ...

[00:06:31] ... ... has taken a certain direction in terms of the winners and the nominees.

[00:06:37] There are also ... I looked here and there's a study from the Los Angeles Times from 2012.

[00:06:44] They looked at what are these Academy members who vote for Oscar winners anyway.

[00:06:52] It's 94 percent white, at the time, and 77 percent male.

[00:06:58] And the average age is 62.

[00:07:02] And that led to the final outcry in 2015, namely under the hashtag #OscarsSoWhite,

[00:07:10] when only white actors were nominated that year.

[00:07:18] That has already changed something, namely films and film productions must ...

[00:07:26] ... fulfill certain requirements, certain diversity standards, in order to ...

[00:07:33] ... in casting, the people you see on screen, right through from production,

[00:07:39] to the people in the background for financing, must be met, but the critics say,

[00:07:45] it's basically just so-called "windowdressing", so it's more for the show than anything else.

[00:07:51] Because as you say, the foundation alone has been so stereotypically filled with people,

[00:08:01] that just in most systems, in such a patriarchy and in the patriarchy in the western world,

[00:08:07] who have the power, namely wealthy, upper-middle to upper-class men.

[00:08:15] That these critics are simply saying that there needs to be a fundamental, systemic overhaul

[00:08:22] and upheaval within the Hollywood movie industry for it to ever really be different

[00:08:28] and be more than "windowdressing."

[00:08:31] The Oscar for best picture has ...

[00:08:34] This year "Oppenheimer" won.

[00:08:37] Exactly, and "Oppenheimer" met the standards, these diversity standards,

[00:08:43] just the example, that's nothing against the movie "Oppenheimer", but there weren't that many

[00:08:49] "People of Color" were involved in that production, but the fact that there were several women in higher positions,

[00:08:58] that was enough to achieve this diversity quota.

[00:09:02] You basically reach the quota very quickly.

[00:09:05] Exactly, that's my point.

[00:09:07] That's a point of criticism that's been around for a long time, because here you always look at a bit of history from the Oscars

[00:09:13] and Marlon Brando, for example, where he was nominated for the party, very famously,

[00:09:19] he didn't go himself, he protested and sent a Native American representative for him instead,

[00:09:26] "Sacheen Littlefeather" and she accepted the Oscars for him and said in her speech,

[00:09:33] that he didn't go because Native Americans are treated so badly by the US film industry.

[00:09:41] So that's something that was recognized very early on, also within the industry and where criticism is voiced,

[00:09:48] but it took a very, very long time for anything to change.

[00:09:52] And I also think that you can definitely talk about it, i.e. ask the question, how much has really changed

[00:09:58] and how much is just for show.

[00:10:01] So Lily Gladstone is the first Native American to be nominated for an Oscar for best actress,

[00:10:08] She didn't win, that's another typical thing that happened, I think, Emma Stone won for best actress,

[00:10:16] who seemed very shocked when she found out, did you watch the video?

[00:10:21] Because she was so surprised,

[00:10:25] Yes, you got the feeling that she didn't expect to win this Oscar.

[00:10:29] Yes, well, that's rehearsed,

[00:10:30] So I don't know.

[00:10:32] So Lily Gladstone was actually the forerunner in all the rehearsals,

[00:10:35] There are poles and people bet on draand all sorts of things. So she was actually already

[00:10:40] the pioneer, but then she just didn't win, again.

[00:10:44] Yes, I think that's because the Oscars are also, well, you're in the Hollywood film industry,

[00:10:53] you can become a member to vote for the Oscars, which means you get,

[00:10:58] you then vote as a member of the Academy and these are just members of the

[00:11:05] film industry, from actors, actresses, to producers and so on and so forth.

[00:11:09] And just Hollywood insiders you would say. And so Harvey Weinstein was

[00:11:17] famous for having a relationship with Gwyneth Paltrow in the 90s ...

[00:11:22] Shakespeare in Love was that movie back then. I wrote that down too. That's the thing

[00:11:27] prime example of who won a movie because everyone actually thought, okay, that can't

[00:11:31] win. That was Shakespeare in Love, which we also have in our collection. It's a romantic comedy

[00:11:36] and was nominated for Best Picture in the same year as Saving Private James Ryan,

[00:11:43] Saving Private Ryan, which is the classic war movie and also a very good movie,

[00:11:51] I think now. Exactly, and then Shakespeare in Love won because Harvey Weinstein

[00:11:59] ran such an extreme Oscar campaign for this movie. One that had never [00:12:05]

[00:12:05] had ever been done before. It really started. They've promoted their movies before under these

[00:12:11] Academy members who vote there. But he elevated it to art and he mastered it

[00:12:19] like hardly anyone else. And it's also known within the industry who the Academy members are

[00:12:24] are, but there are people who are just assumed to be and then they get

[00:12:28] for example, the films are sent to them free of charge on an iPad, which they then of course keep

[00:12:33] allowed to keep. Sure, bribery is not officially allowed, but they do get the iPad.

[00:12:37] Or then there are internal Oscar parties where all of these possible Academy members are invited

[00:12:45] are invited and then they get free food and drink. Yes, if

[00:12:49] you go on vacation with them or get sent on the cruise or whatever the super rich in

[00:12:55] Hollywood do and then you're going to get paid to get the part or

[00:13:01] to get a project waved through, you just do him a favor

[00:13:05] That's just how it works, right? Yes. And it's certainly a very corrupt system and

[00:13:14] why the Oscars as an award, I think, should be questioned, because

[00:13:21] the interesting thing about it is how much value we nonetheless place on it

[00:13:26] or how curious we are about it. Yes, and it's like that, I can somehow

[00:13:32] not at all when they hear, ah, Oppenheimer has the

[00:13:35] best movie, then I think to myself, ah, maybe I should watch it after all. That

[00:13:38] I can't prevent that. Because then you think to yourself, yeah, then you have to

[00:13:41] they must be right somehow, that's a bit of a dran thing, that it's still

[00:13:45] is a good movie. I often think what happened with Emma Stone, what I said earlier,

[00:13:50] which was my point earlier, is that she won over, so she won instead of Lily

[00:13:54] Gladstone, because they often award it like a lifetime achievement. That's once with Robert

[00:14:01] Downey Jr. won Best Actor, the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor,

[00:14:08] He wasn't the lead actor. Yes, Stephen Murphy had it, I think, yes,

[00:14:14] just now. And then I had the feeling that he's been in the industry forever,

[00:14:18] he has this famous career, with working his way up from the bottom, which

[00:14:22] which is also something Hollywood loves, so they like to do you down as much as,

[00:14:26] that they praise you to the highest heights, but then they take you down again

[00:14:30] down when they can. And he's really become very famous now, but through the Marvel movies

[00:14:36] and that's something that the Oscars aren't known for. Except for animation,

[00:14:44] they even have that, they're nominated this year. But for superhero movies there's

[00:14:48] no Oscars for superhero movies and then I had the feeling, I mean Robert Downey Jr

[00:14:53] good movie since he's not with Marvel anymore and that was just

[00:14:58] this role in "Oppenheimer". And then he immediately won an Oscar because

[00:15:05] I think that's where they recognize a certain cultural

[00:15:11] influence that this person gains or maybe something that they already liked before,

[00:15:17] but what they don't. I think that so often, with the smaller ones in quotation marks

[00:15:23] Oscars, like the film music, for example, it feels like the same people are always nominated

[00:15:27] Hans Zimmer definitely gets a nomination. Then I always think to myself, it can't be

[00:15:34] that these are the only film musicians who work in this industry

[00:15:38] work in this industry, but they're the only ones I know and that's why they get it straight away.

[00:15:43] Yes, and of course it's just for show, it's an event, you look at it

[00:15:49] you just like to watch it, you're a bit voyeuristic because then you see this

[00:15:53] in quotation marks live for once. At the end, which this year, well

[00:16:00] this year there have been shockingly few scandals, there was "Barbie Gate" beforehand, because

[00:16:05] it was about the fact that Barbie was a huge box office hit, the Oscars more famous

[00:16:11] but don't like to reward box office hits. However, both the director Greta

[00:16:17] Gervick and lead actress Margot Robbie are not Oscar-nominated

[00:16:23] but the man in this female movie, Ryan Gosling, of all people, won the

[00:16:28] best supporting actor, was nominated, but he didn't win. Do you remember what you were

[00:16:34] did you think?

[00:16:35] I know there was a lot of backlash because people said, yeah, so to speak

[00:16:42] they deserved it and that's a snap, that they're not getting it now.

[00:16:46] Yes, a so-called Oscar snap.

[00:16:47] But on the one hand we think afterwards, such snaps, you can do that about so many

[00:16:53] movies and the prime example, Saving Private James Ryan, that's immediately the

[00:16:58] movie where I think to myself, okay, why didn't that win at all? In contrast

[00:17:02] to the other one in particular. And that's also something, it's just awards, there's

[00:17:08] not your life dran. And on the other hand...

[00:17:12] But it can change a career?

[00:17:14] Yes, of course it can. And on the other hand, you always have to, I mean, I've seen him, Barbie.

[00:17:19] It's a nice movie, but that's about it.

[00:17:22] And about the discussion, because it was called a feminist discussion, so that has

[00:17:31] my perception, it took place particularly in the media, mostly on Twitter, which was then discussed

[00:17:38] was then discussed.

[00:17:39] And that's when I first, I just let myself get carried away, not

[00:17:44] really attentively, followed it and just, what, that doesn't exist now, of course

[00:17:47] the man is nominated again and then I also watched a video essay,

[00:17:52] of a black video essayist on YouTube.

[00:17:54] She made an extremely good point that I would like to finish with, which is

[00:18:01] who said that this media outcry or this media outcry against this so-called

[00:18:05] so-called "Barbiegate" are ultimately empty statements that are posted on social media, for example

[00:18:12] attention for a short time and confirm small groups in themselves, but it is much

[00:18:18] more important to start a larger debate, for example to look at how many

[00:18:24] people of color were nominated this year, that Lily Gladstone was the first Native

[00:18:28] American nominated has gotten much less attention, at least

[00:18:32] media attention than "Barbiegate."

[00:18:33] And in the spirit of intersectional feminism, having a debate that doesn't just include this

[00:18:41] small bubble or encompasses this bubble and that focuses on how big the

[00:18:49] systemic problems in Hollywood are and we haven't even talked about the nepo-babies yet

[00:18:53] talked about.

[00:18:54] That means a change for all marginalized groups and it then has the Greta Gerwig

[00:19:00] didn't win, but she made millions.

[00:19:03] Like I said, it's awards, it's not the end of the world and the millions help

[00:19:10] sure to quench her tears.

[00:19:12] They can wipe the tears from their eyes with the dollars.

[00:19:16] Also interesting, I don't know if they've ever spoken out about it at all.

[00:19:22] Everybody spoke for them and they didn't really say anything.

[00:19:28] Yes, that's ideal when the whole world says they deserve an Oscar.

[00:19:33] Nothing better could happen.

[00:19:34] So many movies that might have deserved it have never won best picture

[00:19:38] Oscar.

[00:19:39] So, whether that means that "Barbie" will still be relevant in 20 years and be a

[00:19:44] pop-cultural hit, it doesn't mean that.

[00:19:47] Like Gwyneth Paltrow in Shakespeare in Love.

[00:19:50] Yeah.

[00:19:51] Terrible movie.

[00:19:52] I have to say that now.

[00:19:55] That was the Oscars.

[00:19:57] If you want, you can also check out our movie collection on Filmfriend.

[00:20:03] to the Oscars, we'd be delighted.

[00:20:06] Maybe you can tell us what you think about Filmfriend and also about the Oscars.

[00:20:10] The website is innsbruck.filmfriend.at.

[00:20:14] You can write to us on Instagram, Facebook or at post.stadtbibliothek@innsbruck.gv.at.

[00:20:23] With that, we say goodbye and see you next time.

[00:20:30] Bye!

[00:20:36] The foreword is a production of the Innsbruck City Library and part of Stadtstimmen, the audio channel

[00:20:57] of the city of Innsbruck.